Troll Hunter Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 A grown-up - an Old Wife? - told me that if I remove my battery to lay up my vehicle over the winter, I should not stand the battery directly on a concrete floor. I should place a piece of wood beneath it. If stood directly on a concrete floor it will steadily discharge and deteriorate. I know that a stored battery will gradually discharge, but does a concrete floor accelerate this process? I can't think of any science behind this advice, so is there any substance to it, or is it just an Old Wives' Tale? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 It may insulate it from the cold a little, but honestly, charge it up every month with a trickle charger and it will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Winter is for driving trucks! not putting them in storage! Cold conditions usually preserve battery life, if not just slow them down a bit... not entirly sure... Mav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 You say you "can't think of any science behind this advice", but surely in Canada it must be widespread general knowledge that battery performance is reduced in low temperatures? If the comparison is between cold concrete and insulated concrete, then insulate. If you want a practical test on whether a difference can be felt, stand on a cold concrete or stone slabbed / tiled floor, for several hours, perhaps while at a workbench, then insulate the same floor and repeat the process. Your feet and legs will be a lot less cold the second time around. In older machine shops look at areas in front of lathes and similar tools, where workers spend a long time standing. You will frequently find wooden platforms. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Not only do I store batteries on a wooden base. I also have them on a ply sheet in the battery box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I heard that if you sprinkle Juniper Berries on the top of the battery on the night of the first full moon after the winter solstice then lay pine sprigs in the shape of a teaspoon on the floor - the battery will become charged with moon energy! However - your old wives tale may work just as well I can only see there being a problem if the Electrolite were to freeze - and that's never going to happen in the UK. A cold battery will deliver less current - but if you warm it up, it returns to normal. That's what the CCA rating is all about. The CCA is the current the battery will deliver into a load when at 0 degrees F (-31C). I cannot see a piece of wood making much difference to the temperature of the battery. Maybe it's one for MythBusters! They can try my helpful suggestion at the same time Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 they dont like to be stored on a cold surface, i.e. concrete, or even steel shelving. usually only really applies when they are not being cycled though i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Can you be any more specific / scientific than "they don't like"? Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Can you be any more specific / scientific than "they don't like"? Si 8 out of 10 batteries who when surveyed expressed a preference stated...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Can you be any more specific / scientific than "they don't like"? Not on an internet forum, it's not allowed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Maybe it's one for MythBusters! They can try my helpful suggestion at the same time Does said suggestion involve Kari Byron testing the battery in warm weather in a bikini? If so, you've got my vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Yes. They can and do crack the casing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 They can and do crack the casing. I would respectfully suggest that this is a hang-up from when battery casings were made from Bitumen - which becomes very brittle in the cold. Modern plastic battery casings are no more likely to crack in the cold than your Bumper - unless perhaps the contents freezes or you drop it! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I would respectfully suggest that this is a hang-up from when battery casings were made from Bitumen - which becomes very brittle in the cold. Modern plastic battery casings are no more likely to crack in the cold than your Bumper - unless perhaps the contents freezes or you drop it! Si So when did they change the casings ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Can you be any more specific / scientific than "they don't like"? Si of course i cant :i-m_so_happy:that was just my 2p from what i have always been taught, i must admit that it may have sounded like i had some knowledge there, and im sorry for misleading you all Does said suggestion involve Kari Byron testing the battery in warm weather in a bikini? If so, you've got my vote definately one for kari byron!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Theres a autolecky on the LRO forum. He reckons your best storing batteries in the freezer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 My understanding about the long term storage of lead acid batteries is not about the surface they are stored on and more to do with the dampness causing damage to the battery. It was explained to me that where possible batteries should be stored out of the damp and cold (hence off a bare and exposed concrete floor) as this will act as a thermal block keeping the battery below the ambient temperature. It should also be stored with Vaseline or similar over the terminals or on a trickle charge. The reason I was given for this is because of the damp and temperature variation between the air and the battery will cause the battery to sweat on the outside of the plastic this build up of condensation can allow the current to track across the battery causing a dead short and draining it and causing damage to the plates and killing the battery. Preparing to be shot down in flames, and ridiculed Jason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyjrode Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Hi all, Well to add a 1p to the topic, in trade school we were taught to store batteries on wood too and this was in South Africa so the cold wasn't a factor there, for the life of me I can't recall why we had to do this, school ended 20 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Allow me to give an alternative explanation. Battery Acid is very bad for concrete! It just eats straight through it! I had a leaky battery on my workshop floor and over a week it ate through a foot thick of concrete. I don't think this old wives tale has anything to do with protecting the battery! The reason I was given for this is because of the damp and temperature variation between the air and the battery will cause the battery to sweat on the outside of the plastic this build up of condensation can allow the current to track across the battery causing a dead short and draining it and causing damage to the plates and killing the battery. I struggle with this. Pure water is non conductive - its the presence of ions (salts, metals etc) which makes it conductive. Condensation is fairly pure and even if it maintained a continuous track between the terminals the amount of charge lost through this route would be small. Maybe if you submerged the battery in salt water? Where is Kary Byron when you need her? Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Well I've got a fair few lead acid's up and down the railway lines in some cold nasty horrible places like Buxton and the Peak District that operate all sorts of signalling items, perhaps we should bring them down for the winter in case they "don't like it " "We apologise to passengers on platform two, but the next train will arrive in June, this is due to the batteries on the line getting a chill." , and to think they used to take the pi** out of the leaves....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 "We apologise to passengers on platform two, but the next train will arrive in June, this is due to the batteries on the line getting a chill." , and to think they used to take the pi** out of the leaves....... Doesn't matter...the train would be late anyway As proven this week hehe..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Theres a autolecky on the LRO forum. He reckons your best storing batteries in the freezer. Almost two weeks ago I questioned this theory Dave, I currently have one 12V lead acid battery in my deep freeze and when I put it in it had 12.2V on my volt meter, so we will see what it reads after christmas, I think that will be long enough? Won't I look a pillock if he was just yankin my crank!?!?!?!?!!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Hunter Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 Well, many thanks, All, for the combined wisdom of the forum. As I suspected, there doesn't appear to be any solid evidence that storing a battery on a concrete floor,in my case indoors and above freezing, will cause any damage specific to the concrete floor. However, I'm just on my way out to gather some juniper berries and pine sprigs. You just can't be too careful !!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smego Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 When I worked at the Electrical Research Association years ago, the battery test area had wooden shelves and pallet type walk ways, not for any spooky bullsh!+ but just because 1, the wood wont conduct like metal sheds, 2, leaky acid would hit the floor and your shoes were above it and 3, if you dropped a battery it would bounce rather than crack :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 All very interesting ideas. As with many products you can buy batteries of varying qualities and specifications. Some batteries will have great cold weather performance and others less so, the same can be said for warm weather too! Working temperature ranges; (degrees C) Mid range lead acid -25 to +40 Mid range AGM -25 to +40 Lifeline AGM -40 to +71 Odyssey AGM -45 to +45 Armasafe AGM* -40 to +80 *Odyssey's military range. As an example of temperature's effect on capacity; (mid range AGM) Lifeline AGM Odyssey give the option to purchase their batteries in a 'metal jacket', just add MJ to the end of any Odyssey part number. This metal jacket is designed to help keep batteries warm in extreme conditions and has helped extend service life somewhat. Temperature has a massive effect when charging or discharging, charge voltage should be reduced with increased temperature. Temperature compensation is required when the temperature of the battery is expected to be less than 10°C / 50°F or more than 30°C / 85°F during long periods of time. The recommended temperature compensation for most VRLA (valve regulated lead acid batteries is -4 mV / Cell (-24 mV /°C for a 12 V battery). The centre point for temperature compensation is 20°C / 70°F. A specific battery storeage warehouse will always have batteries raised from the concrete floor in racking systems, using woodern shelves (usually ply) with the temperature regulated at 21 degrees C. I've used many different batteries over the years, in fairly controlled conditions, nothing seems to compare with the Odyssey range for long term use. Their resistance to 'abuse' seems unmatched, no other battery has been able to withstand the high vibration & impacts, the heavy loads for long durations, you really do get what you pay for with batteries. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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