Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Bit as it says really I am about to start fabrication of rear winch mtg number 3. This will look like a 90 rearcrossmember and house the MileMarker. So serious Q here : If you had the option to fit ANY recovery type point to the back of a 90 style crossmember (dimensionally) then what would it be and why Prob looking for more than the "LR Dealer Kit" or "NATO" etc, the reason for asking is that I can fab into it whatever I fancy. One thought I have had is "sinking" in a swivelly type unit, so that it has less sticking out etc. The other reason revolves around an idea I have for winching tweak on the entire unit - TBA and watch this pace. 1st I have a lot of hours of basic fabrication to get the main unit, so hence the Q re recovery points post up any ideas however off the wall ! Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Unless you have too much time on your hands (and you know it will take longer than you think ) I'd say if it ain't broke don't fix it ... a NATO is squaddie proof and if attached to a solid enough x-member will never break, and how often do you get hung up by it? It also offers rear protection in case of errant Mitsubishis straying too close on the road if you were feeling creative you could design a novel quick-release system so you can bung on a NATO, ball hitch, pin and jaw, sky hook or whatever takes your fancy? I'd stick with that in the middle and a couple of built in eyes in line with each chassis member for whatever. And why not incorporate some sort of guide/pulley system in the end of the crossmember to feed the rear winch rope out of, so you can winch the back end sideways without having to worry about snagging the rope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Not really off the wall Nige, but one of the best solutions IMHO is a Loop made from a piece of 20mm is Bar. It can come through the front surface of the cross member, and be welded rond the hole, but behind that can be 6"+ of Bar welded to the side of the chassis leg. That gives you over 2' of pretty meaty weld holding your recovery loop to the chassis. Not complicated, and it needs some heat to bend the bar, but simple is good... Heres one I did for Orange on the front of his rangie - not the same, but if you welded through the face of the crossmember and then down the sides of the chassis rails... well you get the idea... Cheers Mark ps, I can't claim any kind of credit for any of this idea - but I have read about it a lot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Agreed with Bogmonster. If you are sticking to a setup similar to your current fairlead location between the crossmember and the bottom of the rear door, then you should be able to squeeze a Nato into the space they usually locate. Alternatively you could use what is listed on the defender micro-fiche as "Tow Hook Heavy Duty", its what i've got on the 90 and is basically a Nato that doesn't swivel and therefore is slightly smaller. I'm sure Western could provide the pictures from his EPC If you intend to have the fairlead in the middle of the crossmember, thus preventing Nato fitment, then a blatant copy of Tonks swivelly shackles would work nicely - with some suitable 10mm plate reinforcing repair sections I personally prefer to have a single recovery point in the middle, easier to hook straps onto, dont need a bridle etc I do like Marks suggestion though, simple cheap and effective The above just my humble opinion Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 good old tow hook with a pin. Problem with the one that mark refers to is that you need a shackle; more agro and time loss in the field. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrover598 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 The bar type loop seems to be a good choice But i prefer a single central recovery point, something like a 5T pin hitch as i use straps mainly as apposed to a winch hook, which needs a master link to fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 well u're good with a lathe and mill u know my recovery swivelling points, u could sink them into the crossmember quite easy i have 2 of these on the front and 2 on the back, all inline with chassis rails Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Big and simple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Big and simple? Yeap just like Americans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 All show and no go too - can't imagine square loops would be ideal for heavy recovery and yes I do realise that's a concept car and hence an exercise in impressing 12-year-olds and motoring journos I like the welded on loops - simple, lightweight and no moving parts or even fasteners to fail. Nice big eye to them too. My choice, that will probably feature on the 109 at least once, are the simple bog standard pin hitches - they're about £13 from Towsure and the pin makes it easy to hook the eye of a rope/strop on, or clip a winch hook on, or stick a shackle on, etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Nato hitches must be so last year, I spotted a BMW 325 wearing one this morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 It wasn't "adjacent" to the rear of your 90 was it Trev..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 not this one it had been bolted to the 325 earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Nige, this is something I've been thinking about as I'll be doing something simerlar as soon as the vehicle's weatherproof (2050, then ) and my shortlist is: Simple loop of bar (very cheap, simple, light and I've had no issues using this sort of thing to date) Something along the lines of Tonks (nice but a bit of work) This sort of thing (nice quick solution) IMHO, although I like NATOs it might be a bit of a pain to fit arround the fairlead and, if it was off set, it might get in the way of winching sideways. The other thing I'm doing is extending the corners of the crossmember forwards to the edge of the rear wheelarch (as D44's rear x-member) along with something at the end of the x member to guide the winch line when pulling sideways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Not really off the wall Nige, but one of the best solutions IMHO is a Loop made from a piece of 20mm is Bar. It can come through the front surface of the cross member, and be welded rond the hole, but behind that can be 6"+ of Bar welded to the side of the chassis leg. That gives you over 2' of pretty meaty weld holding your recovery loop to the chassis. Not complicated, and it needs some heat to bend the bar, but simple is good...Heres one I did for Orange on the front of his rangie - not the same, but if you welded through the face of the crossmember and then down the sides of the chassis rails... well you get the idea... Cheers Mark ps, I can't claim any kind of credit for any of this idea - but I have read about it a lot... The idea for these came from Bishbosh....ta muchly!! However they are a lot bigger being made of 20mm bar. There is plenty of room for a large yellow hook to clip on/off and flap around in the breeze if it's not under tension! Although we haven't used it in anger......yet........it seems a lot easier for the WB as the loop doesn't move! I spent last Sunday WBing for Mark at the Kent Off Road Club outing and got thoroughly fed up chasing the rotating loops around to fit the shackle to!! Especially when standing on a rather steep slope holding the strop and shackle pin in one hand and using the other to hold yourself up on the bonnet!! Minor point, but I suppose you'll be driving, so you get annoyed with it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocKeR Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 I concur with the bent bar option if you're fabricating it yourself. Simple & bloody strong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 30, 2006 Author Share Posted November 30, 2006 Keep the thoughts coming. Why are some of them (a la Davids on the ramp) set at a "Jaunty" angle, looks ?, which is fine , or is there a reason that seems to be eascaping me, which I thinks there might be ?? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Keep the thoughts coming.Why are some of them (a la Davids on the ramp) set at a "Jaunty" angle, looks ?, which is fine , or is there a reason that seems to be eascaping me, which I thinks there might be ?? Nige Think its to do with side pulls and causes the hook/shackle to move in to the bumper rather than leveraging the bend from a point furthest from the bumper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 1, 2006 Author Share Posted December 1, 2006 Still thinking re the bars, anyone have anything else to add re vertical vs "Jaunty Angle" ? Other than the bling factor ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Horizontal would give a step to stand on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Still thinking re the bars, anyone have anything else to add re vertical vs "Jaunty Angle" ?Other than the bling factor ? Nige Less sharp bend making it stronger? Not looked in detail at the D44 one but it looks like the bar could be set so its welded to the corners of the plates that weld to the chassis rails so the load is transfered straight down the rails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 nige if you are using the Southdown towpack still why not just use the recovery eyelet on there you'll never pull that off without removing the chassis rails too. If not horizontal so you can step on them as Jez said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 I've got a pair of M24 lifting eyes that will be bolted though the rear winch mount ………….. I seem to remember that is what Jez may have used on the rear of Petal ………… post up a pic Jez …… Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 when will you ever be pulling in a dead straight line? all the bent loops will suffer in terms of strength on a side pull but as a cost effective solution its worth a whirl, keeping the hoop leg lengths as short a practically possible or adding side gussets would chunky it up.. but then at what point do you stop..? eeeek put the ten milly on the floor and step away Mr Barker lets not make this incident nasty.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 M24's Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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