Thoughts and musings on the new defender

[Snagger]

I don’t think the rear fuel tanks on older models we’re anywhere near as exposed as that - they were well protected from reversing damage or driving off steps by the rear cross member, while this is almost completely exposed.  Look at the pipes routing between the suspension mounts - they will get some protection from the suspension, but they’re awfully low and exposed to rock or stump impact.

[Bowie69]

Side tank on a 90 is just the worst position....

[landroversforever]

Just now, Bowie69 said:

Side tank on a 90 is just the worst position....

Funnily enough I was about to say that!

[Snagger]

Not as bad as the old Series Is, which is why I was specific in my comment about rear mounted tanks.

[geoffbeaumont]

That doesn't make it a good thing though - ideally an off road vehicle should have good solid components or protection at the lowest points. Things that aren't going to disable the vehicle if they make heavy contact.

[elbekko]

18 minutes ago, Snagger said:

I don’t think the rear fuel tanks on older models we’re anywhere near as exposed as that - they were well protected from reversing damage or driving off steps by the rear cross member, while this is almost completely exposed.  Look at the pipes routing between the suspension mounts - they will get some protection from the suspension, but they’re awfully low and exposed to rock or stump impact.

Maybe a bit less. But still very exposed, especially on the long overhangs of the RRC and D1. The only reason most people don't bash into them is because there's a honking big plow towbar protecting it.

[Gazzar]

Like the series, the tank hangs down, with a bash plate, right in the break over position.

[landroversforever]

2 minutes ago, Gazzar said:

Like the series, the tank hangs down, with a bash plate, right in the break over position.

Not really a bash plate, certainly not on my 90.... just a maybe ~1mm thick cradle over the lower half of the tank up to the mountings.

[Gazzar]

Yes, true.

[Jamie_grieve]

5 hours ago, elbekko said:

That there are a lot of older LR products that have the fuel tank in a very vulnerable position, and about as vulnerable as the exhaust on a new Defender.

I think you're confusing the silencer with the exhaust pipe under the rear subframe that I was referring to.. It hangs lower than any other point on the whole car, it's a part that when you drive in ruts will be the first point of contact, even an unmade road with a high crown and potholes would be enough to cause substantial damage.

You're incorrect about the fuel tank on older products being more vulnerable than the exhaust on this. I think you've maybe not yet had the chance to have a good crawl around one, (not under it obviously because there simply isn't room to even squeeze an arm, let alone get a head underneath it).

Why are we even having this conversation about whether a vehicle with a defender badge can drive on mildly bumpy roads without damaging its ridiculously routed exhaust? It shows how much of a sham and a disappointment it's turned out to be.

 

[Mo Murphy]

Can you put a guard on an exhaust pipe ? 😂

It's not designed to go off road, Land Rover are just trading on the previous models abilities to sell this road car.

Mo

[Snagger]

9 hours ago, Mo Murphy said:

Can you put a guard on an exhaust pipe ? 😂

It's not designed to go off road, Land Rover are just trading on the previous models abilities to sell this road car.

Mo

You could, but you’d have to allow space for airflow to prevent heat issues and for vibration.  That’ll take away a fair bit of departure angle.

[Mo Murphy]

3 minutes ago, Snagger said:

You could, but you’d have to allow space for airflow to prevent heat issues and for vibration.  That’ll take away a fair bit of departure angle.

Less that it already has ? 😂

Mo

[Snagger]

I suspect that one, having the big engine, has all the bells and whistles and is shown on the lowest air suspension setting, so would be far higher off road.  At full height, they are quite high up.  The suspension still has low points, and the wheel base is long enough that the break over angle is compromised, but approach and departure angles look pretty impressive.  I suspect the muffler is high enough off road (not convinced about the pipes before it) - it’s the vulnerability to a reversing impact and its visibility that I find inexplicable.

[elbekko]

10 hours ago, Jamie_grieve said:

I think you're confusing the silencer with the exhaust pipe under the rear subframe that I was referring to.. It hangs lower than any other point on the whole car, it's a part that when you drive in ruts will be the first point of contact, even an unmade road with a high crown and potholes would be enough to cause substantial damage.

That is indeed a bit silly.

10 hours ago, Jamie_grieve said:

I think you've maybe not yet had the chance to have a good crawl around one,

Nope, have signed up for a test drive but will all this virus stuff that's obviously on hold.

[Naks]

A kiwi review: https://www.driven.co.nz/reviews/giving-the-all-new-land-rover-defender-the-beans-in-namibia/

Pros

Instant icon: first new Defender in 72 years
Impressive new Terrain Response system
Subtle but clever heritage styling cues

Cons
Premium product so premium prices
High-tech might put old-school 4x4 people off
Still haven't driven this new model on the road ...

... The Defender ate it all up, notwithstanding a few consumables. We got three separate punctures on two different cars for example, but that hardly dented Land Rover’s stock of 120 spares for the event. There are some big rocks out there.

The 18-inch painted-white steel wheels on the expedition D240 models are not only a fashion master-stroke, they’re more practical for off-roading. “I prefer them,” says lead Experience driver David Sneath. “Alloys can break. With these, they bend and you can just tap them back into shape and carry on.”

Genuine problems are few. We get a power steering warning at one stage, possibly due to so much water being forced under the bonnet at high pressure as we rage through riverbeds for hours on end. We also lose a piece of sill trim after being instructed to attack a river crossing with “passion”. Could be considered corporate littering, I suppose. Once these cars get back to the UK, they’ll all be stripped down, inspected, analysed and rebuilt. And no, they won’t be resold; all are destined to work as support vehicles for Land Rover Experience events.

Defender is a fascinating blend of heritage design and the very latest in Land Rover’s off-road technology. Petrol or diesel? I love the earnest clatter of a Defender with a compression-ignition engine, but this is a heavy car at 2.4 tonnes and it’s the grunty six-pot petrol that gives it truly engaging performance, whether you’re creating a rooster tail of sand or not.

This was an exhausting trip, but not an exhaustive test of course. It was a chance for the Defender to establish its credentials in the harsh environment that helped create the legend, before heading out into the wider (urban) world… and a much broader customer base than the previous model could ever hope to attract. Also, a great chance for us to really give it the beans.

[Naks]

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

1 hour ago, Naks said:

A kiwi review: https://www.driven.co.nz/reviews/giving-the-all-new-land-rover-defender-the-beans-in-namibia/

 

 

First Defender in 72 years.... I think it's bollox like this that tinkles me off more than anything else really. What utter nonesense.

[reb78]

40 minutes ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

First Defender in 72 years.... I think it's bollox like this that tinkles me off more than anything else really. What utter nonesense.

Same. The video 'review' in the next post about the new 'Defender' from the bloke sat in a chair in front of a webcam who hasn't seen it or driven it or done anything with it is the same too. JLR perpetuate the nonsense though by calling every LR series ever produced the Defender too - even they don't understand their own product!

[Snagger]

1 hour ago, reb78 said:

Same. The video 'review' in the next post about the new 'Defender' from the bloke sat in a chair in front of a webcam who hasn't seen it or driven it or done anything with it is the same too. JLR perpetuate the nonsense though by calling every LR series ever produced the Defender too - even they don't understand their own product!

LR did retrospectively apply the Defender name to the utility vehicles, back in the 90s I think, as there was similar confusion between the old models and the Discovery, several years after but in the same manner as how they introduced the Defender name for new vehicles in 1989.  It seemed initially to be applied to the original 90s, 110s and 127s, but later seemed to get applied, at least in franchised dealers and their parts departments, to Series vehicles.  How official that was I don’t know, but the parts guys at a few franchised dealers caused confusion by calling my 109 a Defender while I tried to redirect them to the Series microfiches, while they were already at the right slides.

[Chicken Drumstick]

29 minutes ago, Snagger said:

LR did retrospectively apply the Defender name to the utility vehicles, back in the 90s 

You sure about that? I only recall it being in the last 5 years or so. Since it's been JLR and their continual efforts to produce designer handbags. 

[Snagger]

I remember the confusion when ordering parts at the Cockfosters franchise, and I lived in that area from 96-99, so I’m confident in that.  Like I said, not sure if it was official back then, but it was applied there, Hatfield and a few others I used at the time.

[reb78]

Hatfield seemed embarrassed to be selling the last of the original defenders when we went in there in about 2014. Tucked at the back of the show room in a dusty corner. Tea boy on duty to show it to second rate customers like myself.... They didn't seem to know the vehicle at all. Certainly didn't want my crusty 25 (at the time) year old 110 parked near their forecourt!

[Snagger]

Looking for a nice 90XS for my wife in 2012, we had a similar experience at two franchises, their salesmen only interested in selling Evoques and one telling us how “wrong” we were in wanting a 90.  He wouldn’t even accept the evidence when I didn’t fit width wise in the Evoque seat, taking a look at it just to shut him up. Both salesmen relished describing how awful the Defender was and delighted in telling us lists of false shortcomings.  Truly appalling service.

[Ozzy50]

Why does it weigh 2.4 tonnes ???