Thoughts and musings on the new defender

[Anderzander]

Sounds like nonsense to me ...   ?

[Gazzar]

Donno, if it was closer to the Jimny, it might work. Cheaper, more reliable, it might be a contender.

[Snagger]

On 4/2/2020 at 12:51 AM, Red90 said:

None of the journalists have any off road experience.  Of course they are impressed.  Every single person is impressed the first time they go off road.  Without experience in other vehicles in driving off road, they can't provide any opinion whatsoever if these are good or bad.

Secondly, I'm not being a cynic.  They are paid by Land Rover.  This trip is 100% funded by Land Rover.  You are only chosen to come if you have said nice things in the past.  If you ever want to drive one again, you will continue to say good things.  Automotive journalism is always highly biased as they need to get the vehicle provided for free.  In this case it is much worse as Land Rover also needed to pay for the entire trip.

While the journalists are not directly “paid” by manufactures, at least usually, they are “rewarded” by being taken to exotic locations, being dined and wined in luxury resort hotels and get to partake in exciting, exclusive activities other than just driving.  So yes, the point is they have a big vested interest in positive reviews.  That is even more pronounced by their desire to keep their jobs - get a name for negative reviews, even when absolutely honest and unbiased in perspective, then they will no longer get to do reviews, and then thay can’t do much work.  So, objectivity is very rare, just like in other walks of journalism.

look at Andrew St Pierre-White.  He has a lot of off-roading and overlanding experience and knowledge, especially in that location, with decades of experience of all the brands, but they won’t let him attend any of their events to do a review.  That is very telling - they know he’s an objective expert on overlanding, and that this is just a very capable Chelsea Tractor that can never be adapted to overlanding, should anyone be insane enough to take such a complex vehicle into remote third world areas.

[Chicken Drumstick]

1 hour ago, Snagger said:

look at Andrew St Pierre-White.  He has a lot of off-roading and overlanding experience and knowledge, especially in that location, with decades of experience of all the brands, but they won’t let him attend any of their events to do a review.  That is very telling - they know he’s an objective expert on overlanding, and that this is just a very capable Chelsea Tractor that can never be adapted to overlanding, should anyone be insane enough to take such a complex vehicle into remote third world areas.

Yes very telling, considering he has 206,000 subscribers on YouTube. And his two most popular videos are about Defenders with 2.9 and 1.7 million views respectively.

[Anderzander]

He hasn’t slated it either ...

[dailysleaze]

In one of his recent videos he explained how press launches work, and how journalists aren't spoon fed what to say, but the experience they have goes a long way. To paraphrase, he said:

"To get the truth from their reviews, tone down the positivity, tone up the negativity and pay attention to anything mentioned as outstanding"

[Mo Murphy]

1 hour ago, Anderzander said:

He hasn’t slated it either ...

Yet 😊

[Ex Member]

He did a recent video where he said that he will test drive one as soon as they exist and asked for any willing owner to contact him.  Land Rover themselves will not lend him a vehicle to test.

[Naks]

 

[Naks]

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

7 hours ago, Naks said:

 

Good to see the only challenging bit of terrain it was stuck on it. 

[deep]

You'd think they would have saved up some pennies and bought a set of decent tyres!  I noticed some prolonged wheelspin earlier in the video.  Maybe the computer wasn't plugged in properly?

[davie]

On 4/12/2020 at 11:15 AM, landroversforever said:

They’ve given all the press cars out to groups like the Red Cross etc.

They have indeed given them out, and oh boy i wish i was allowed to take it off road and really test it.

Done some road miles in one, literally a heres the keys jump in and go so haven't read the books, gone from a 2003 defender to it and there are sooooooooo many functions and options i wish i had time to test off in mud, but rules say no as somebody agreed to hand them back with all panels straight and not hammered..... dear landrover uk if you want to loan me one for a decent test i will definitely take it lol!!!!!    see how it copes in a real mixed environment of work for say 6 months.

so on road thoughts,

cruise control is a lil fiddly to set up, but never used before so thats a learning curve. 

live camera rear view mirror, - love it

reverse camera and fact it shows you people stood along side - love it

cubby box fridge - love it

phone to set up and talk, love it - other half says its ace and soooo quiet as i called her

sat nav is hundred times better than red cross tom tom carp, and if i could find button to turn on voice be perfect

auto box - never driven a single yard in an auto  before so really a beginer here - its ace, very smooth

stop/start tech at lights etc - yep i want it

take off when right foot is applied hard, omg its a speeding ticket here we come but very smooth and rapid - could i afford the mpg, dont know as havent fuelled it yet

an odd one but how quick can i wipe clean with wipes ( multi driver/covid stuff) actually its ok, doesnt half smear the sat nav screen though

box on side - hate it

folded down rear seats not totally flat - hate it

dear god whats with tow eyes in rear bumper and expect to tow artics....too in face

engine bay, oh carp theres not a spare inch 

watched a video above, that remind me i hate steering wheel, its too fiddly in design for those of us with big hands/fingers,   fingers catch holes and you wander lanes as its twitchy at 70, needs to be cleaner

 

all based on some road miles and not reading manual, just get in and go.

if i can figure out how to attach pics from mobile i will

Edited April 24, 2020 by davie
add more

[Naks]

Land Rover Defender spied testing with a V8: https://www.autoblog.com/2020/04/24/land-rover-defender-spied-v8-engine/#slide-2227525

Yes, although it may look like any ordinary 2020 Land Rover Defender, this test vehicle actually has a 5.0-liter V8 under the hood. How could we know? Well the spy photographer and his team that provided these photos ran the plates and discovered the car is registered as having such an engine.

There's also a very small exterior detail that reveals this Defender doesn't have either the turbo four-cylinder or six-cylinder. At the back, there are dual exhaust outlets with a quartet of tips. The recently released Defender with the other engine options has a solitary outlet on the left side. Not only that, but the muffler the tips are attached to is shaped differently compared to other Defenders.

Adding a V8 shouldn't be particularly difficult. The Defender shares a large selection of components with the much larger Range Rover. It even shares its new straight-six with the big SUV. And going down this Range Rover parts bin line of thinking, it could get one of the model's V8s.

The base one makes a whopping 518 horsepower and 461 pound-feet of torque. The upgraded one makes 557 horsepower and 516 pound-feet of torque. The base one would seem more than adequate for the relatively small Defender, but hey, in a world of 700-horsepower Jeeps, why not go big?...

 

[Naks]

New Land Rover Defender X P400 review: https://www.evo.co.uk/land-rover/defender/202375/new-land-rover-defender-x-p400-review

... This P400 mild-hybrid is currently the only straight-six available in the Defender, although a diesel will arrive soon enough, with the 3-litre unit featuring both a conventional twin-scroll turbocharger and a 48V electric supercharger. There’s also a belt-integrated starter motor in lieu of an alternator, with a 48V lithium-ion battery that stores recuperated energy as the car slows.

 

Combined, these two elements produce 394bhp and 406lb ft of torque, making this the most powerful Defender in the company’s history. The quickest, too, with a 0-60mph time of 6.1sec and a 129mph maximum if you go for the optional 22-inch wheels, otherwise you’re pinned back to 119mph.

 

There’s a claim of 29.4mpg, but we did struggle to get out of the teens on our drive. Perhaps a longer run on a motorway would help rather than a mad dash across the Fosse Way in the Cotswolds. ...
 

What's it like to drive?

Nothing like a Defender of old, which some of you will be more than happy about while others will head straight outside to hose out the interior of their ‘real’ Defender. But it’s 2020 and having a car that drove like it was designed to survive being dropped from a plane makes for a lovely piece of nostalgia, but not such a great car.

 

In the new Defender you’re driving a car that works on road as well as it does off it. It doesn’t lurch around or pitch itself into a corner or around a motorway slip road curve with the grace of an elephant on skates. It drives like a normal car. It drives better than most car-based SUVs.There’s a suppleness to its ride quality that puts the Discovery 5 to shame and its body control is superior, too. It certainly responds to being hustled along better than the 5, and aside from the slightest evidence of vagueness from the steering around the dead ahead when the optional off-road tyres are fitted, you find yourself travelling quicker than expected.

 

The thump from the straight-six helps considerably here, neither troubled by the 2443kg kerb weight nor aerodynamics that probably raised a snigger from the wind tunnel operators. Its step-off from stationary is instant, the mid-range punchy and responsive beyond all expectations, and it even enjoys troubling the red line. Unlike its predecessor and so many of its ilk, it lets you set the pace rather than dictate it. For those long road trips and too far away places that Defenders are drawn to, the road part will no longer be a chore.

 

Your overriding impression of the new Defender is just how complete it feels. How nothing has been compromised or sacrificed and every need has been catered for. It will still crawl up a rock face or submerge itself in a bog and haul itself out the other end, but crucially it will no longer suck the life out of you when you need to travel any distance on a road. ...

[deep]

Fuel economy is a worry.  Even the four cylinder cars they took to Namibia only got around 12 m.p.g. on one of their big days, according to the more open reviews.  The six got under 10...

[landroversforever]

17 minutes ago, deep said:

Fuel economy is a worry.  Even the four cylinder cars they took to Namibia only got around 12 m.p.g. on one of their big days, according to the more open reviews.  The six got under 10...

So does anything if you're not paying for the fuel  

[missingsid]

On 4/25/2020 at 9:00 AM, Naks said:

Land Rover Defender spied testing with a V8: https://www.autoblog.com/2020/04/24/land-rover-defender-spied-v8-engine/#slide-2227525

 

 

Odd I checked it and is has no cc recorded and it is only £150 pa to tax so unless this is a special manufacturer price it is unlikely to be 5.0 V8 or is it the devils fuel?

But I do want to believe!!!!!!!

[Jamie_grieve]

On 4/25/2020 at 9:00 AM, Naks said:

Land Rover Defender spied testing with a V8: https://www.autoblog.com/2020/04/24/land-rover-defender-spied-v8-engine/#slide-2227525

 

 

Is there a school of thought amongst off road vehicle designers that placing the unprotected exhaust as the lowest point of an already low vehicle will somehow add to the capabilities in extremis? Clearly I'm missing something. Even those brand new tyres look bald, everything about this new car just oozes ostentatiousness. There's very little practical about it. 
Look at the door shut line at the waist line of the second door, what's going on there?
Without any protective cappings, those sharp rear corners will surely be scratched and chipped in no time?
One of the few things I do like are the rear towing eyes, Why didn't they have them on the front too like the DC100 it's based on? It would be easy to have them comply with pedestrian safety regulations.
Just looking at the complexity of this thing shows how impractical it is. I wonder what the component count of this is compared to a series one or even a defender?

[Snagger]

Square exhausts.  Yep, they’re renowned for helping performance and economy. 🙄

[elbekko]

17 hours ago, Jamie_grieve said:

Is there a school of thought amongst off road vehicle designers that placing the unprotected exhaust as the lowest point of an already low vehicle will somehow add to the capabilities in extremis?

Yeah, having the fuel tank there is so much better 🙄

[Jamie_grieve]

6 hours ago, elbekko said:

Yeah, having the fuel tank there is so much better 🙄

I don't understand you, what cars have the fuel tank underneath the rear subframe 6" off the ground?
Crushing the soft and vulnerable  low hanging exhaust will not only immobilise the vehicle but also result in regular and expensive repair bills and unnecessary downtime.

[elbekko]

The RRC, the D1, the D2, the later Defenders, ... And it'll be more than 6" in off-road height.

I'd much rather get a dent in my exhaust than get one in my fuel tank.

Edited April 27, 2020 by elbekko

[Chicken Drumstick]

2 hours ago, elbekko said:

The RRC, the D1, the D2, the later Defenders, ... And it'll be more than 6" in off-road height.

I'd much rather get a dent in my exhaust than get one in my fuel tank.

They aren't exactly swappable items. I know of no vehicle that has the exhaust where the tank should be or vie versa. Not really sure what the point is you are making?

As for exhaust out the back, very vulnerable and a PITA off road. Have managed to rip more than one off.

[elbekko]

21 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Not really sure what the point is you are making?

That there are a lot of older LR products that have the fuel tank in a very vulnerable position, and about as vulnerable as the exhaust on a new Defender.