Mo Murphy Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 I lost interest in it when they announced it was going to be built in France. Now it's just another foreign built 4x4, what's so exciting about that ? Mo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 46 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said: Good point - No-one has yet addressed the important issue of whether the Greandier will come with a factory-fitted spider Nah, an after market, open source one, if the original publicity is to be believed. Failing that, it will be a branded "Ineos" bejewelled tarantula about the size of a dinner plate, genetically engineered to grow from the output from one of Ineos' more leaky chemical plants. Ineos won't bother with self-driving tech, they'll just train the spiders. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 My impressions of the New Defender / Ineos situation: Off road Performance: I would think they would be similarly capable / except that I think bigger tyres on the Ineos will likely make a difference. Traction aids still seem to be dependent on tyres and the Defender has limitations there I think On road performance: I would expect the Defender to top this out easily. It feels to be an SUV with clever electronics to support off road capability. Whereas the Ineos seems to be an off-road vehicle with on road compromises. Durability: I would expect the Ineos to be more durable - the Defender, as I understand it is the SUV platform stiffened up. The Ineos looks to have been designed with robustness at the core of its design principles. Everything underneath looks massive. Repairability: Given the construction, both component wise and electronics wise; I would think the Ineos is more repairable. The bonded and welded body structure looks less repairable than the old Defender though. Longevity: The interesting test for me will be : how long will they stay on the road for? And that will factor in how the price is seen I think. Total Cost of Ownership and all that. I see a lot of D3 and D4’s still around towing mini diggers for example - and if the Defender can get that level of longevity it would be good. It looks to me that Ineos is taking this bit pretty seriously, with a galvanised body and partnering with BMW etc. Flexibility: in terms of being able to be modified ... the New Defender looks to have a growing aftermarket, though I think it’s design will limit what can viably be done. Despite the Ineos having separate chassis and so forth - the Body construction of it looks to be limited in (for example) allowing utilities to stick a box on the back or a cherry picker ... but the chassis looks more inviting for swapping things around. Price: I think the entry Defenders will end up cheaper. TCO will be the key factor for many fleets though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 5 hours ago, Mo Murphy said: I lost interest in it when they announced it was going to be built in France. Now it's just another foreign built 4x4, what's so exciting about that ? Mo Yet it is built closer to the UK than the Defender... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 11 hours ago, landroversforever said: I think as a whole we often get blinded by what we'd have rather than what a commercial user needs. That said I've heard a few times of utilities drivers saying they get stuck more often in the Jap stuff over the previous defenders. That reminded me of the time when we ran a Toyota HiLux crew cab 4WD and a Land Rover 110 V8 as work cars. The HiLux was absolutely, embarrassingly useless next to that 110. Big tyres, power and electronics have evened things up a bit since then but there is still a gulf between the latest incarnations of either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 1 hour ago, deep said: Yet it is built closer to the UK than the Defender... ... and I have no interest in that misnamed monstrosity either ! Mo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 22 minutes ago, Mo Murphy said: ... and I have no interest in that misnamed monstrosity either ! Mo I’m sure if you ask around Mo you’ll find someone locally to build you a nice wooden cart for your horses! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, landroversforever said: I’m sure if you ask around Mo you’ll find someone locally to build you a nice wooden cart for your horses! Cart ? I don't want bloody new fangled wheels, I want good reliable skids ! Made by the village wood worker using an adze. You kids today ! Mo 🖕😁 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 Another video from Ineos Grenadier - very little vehicle content, but some seriously pretty pictures and an interesting job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 Another video from the Ineos Grenadier site - just pretty pictures of the later prototypes. Press video https://media.ineosgrenadier.com/ineos-grenadier-passes-gruelling-mountain-tests-with-flying-colours-2/ineos-grenadier-testing-b-roll-2/ (Too big to download to LR4x4) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted May 22, 2021 Author Share Posted May 22, 2021 There's some pretty flexy suspension in the quarry section... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Bowie69 said: There's some pretty flexy suspension in the quarry section... Just what I was thinking. Not just that, but, if it's not enough, the design allows the owner all the modification ability that Land Rover owners used to enjoy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 On 5/17/2021 at 4:49 PM, FridgeFreezer said: ^ this, LR have plenty of scope for cost-reducing the Defender from the headline launch price while I have a feeling the Grenadier is going to go the opposite way as reality bites. If the established manufacturers shifting thousands of trucks can't do much better I don't really know why anyone thinks a low-volume startup is going to be able to unless Mr Ineos is willing to subsidise them to try and get a market foothold. I have a feeling they're going to be like Dacias - the headline super-cheap model nearly doubles in price by the time you add even a few basic features. I think you’re probably right. What appeals to me about the Grenadier, though, is it’s apparent (not yet assured) relative simplicity and ruggedness, lack of frivolous electronics, and the body shape that lends itself to adaptations for different uses like Series and Defender vehicles did. Whether Grenadier will lend itself to comparable levels of body adaptation, like replacement of roofs or the rear tub, remains to be seen, but I think it’ll be less that we have seen with the Classic LRs and more than the Pretender. That’ll be a compromise for robotic assembly and for structural integrity for safety, I suppose, so they won’t have the enormous flexibility of the old LR body designs, but the new LR seems to have no flexibility at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 On 5/17/2021 at 8:52 PM, Anderzander said: My impressions of the New Defender / Ineos situation: Off road Performance: I would think they would be similarly capable / except that I think bigger tyres on the Ineos will likely make a difference. Traction aids still seem to be dependent on tyres and the Defender has limitations there I think On road performance: I would expect the Defender to top this out easily. It feels to be an SUV with clever electronics to support off road capability. Whereas the Ineos seems to be an off-road vehicle with on road compromises. Durability: I would expect the Ineos to be more durable - the Defender, as I understand it is the SUV platform stiffened up. The Ineos looks to have been designed with robustness at the core of its design principles. Everything underneath looks massive. Repairability: Given the construction, both component wise and electronics wise; I would think the Ineos is more repairable. The bonded and welded body structure looks less repairable than the old Defender though. Longevity: The interesting test for me will be : how long will they stay on the road for? And that will factor in how the price is seen I think. Total Cost of Ownership and all that. I see a lot of D3 and D4’s still around towing mini diggers for example - and if the Defender can get that level of longevity it would be good. It looks to me that Ineos is taking this bit pretty seriously, with a galvanised body and partnering with BMW etc. Flexibility: in terms of being able to be modified ... the New Defender looks to have a growing aftermarket, though I think it’s design will limit what can viably be done. Despite the Ineos having separate chassis and so forth - the Body construction of it looks to be limited in (for example) allowing utilities to stick a box on the back or a cherry picker ... but the chassis looks more inviting for swapping things around. Price: I think the entry Defenders will end up cheaper. TCO will be the key factor for many fleets though. I think this is a really good summary and I agree with pretty much all of it. One thing missing I think is aesthetics Whilst the new Defender has some questionable design features like those silly boxes on the sides, overall I really like the look of it (Ignoring the fact it is more D5 than Defender). The Ineos in my opinion looks like an old Santana or Iveco Massif - a bit like a cheap Chinese knock off of the real thing. If I was going to spend £40k plus it would be nice if it did not look like a dogs dinner 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 Tend to agree with you on its looks. I have seen quite a few new 110s all in black and no window boxes wich look really good. Not sure the Ineos will grow on me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 Wow, beauty really is in the eye of the beholder! The new Defender is a bulbous, amorphous-looking thing with silly "design cues" and a front end that is totally out of place in an off-road situation. The Grenadier looks neat, functional and practical (even with a boat prow in front). It's only a matter of taste and I'll accept that anyone on the current "all black" bandwagon and I won't ever agree about that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 7 hours ago, deep said: Wow, beauty really is in the eye of the beholder! The new Defender is a bulbous, amorphous-looking thing with silly "design cues" and a front end that is totally out of place in an off-road situation. The Grenadier looks neat, functional and practical (even with a boat prow in front). It's only a matter of taste and I'll accept that anyone on the current "all black" bandwagon and I won't ever agree about that. Lol, I guess that is the way with everything you can't please everyone as we all have different tastes. I love the look of both the old and the new Defender (leaving aside the purposes of both) but then I also like the look of most of the current stable of Land Rovers and the new Defender obviously fits in with them. I think the Grenadier looks really awkward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soutie Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 As you say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think the rear of the new defender looks like the front of a BMC van going backwards. As for how many mushrooms The designer of the rear of the new disco 5 had? I like the box shape of the Genadier, G Wagon and old defender as it matches my child like drawings of a car. All straight lines. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 I really don't like the look of the new Defender, but I'm acutely aware that I really didn't like the look of the D3 when that came out but that it grew on me over the years. I do really like the look of the Grenadier... to me its a little more G-wagon than old defender. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 There are details on the Grenadier that I’m unconvinced of, but overall I like it. The Pretender looks to me like an early Freelander on steroids with lots of silly gimmicks and few practical aspects. But I’d still take the looks of the original Land Rovers over both. Like Ross, I thought the D3 ugly when it first arrived, and while I’m still not fond of them, I long ago stop finding them ugly. I’m sure the same will be true of the Pretender, but the Grenadier has a big head start on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 I do remember the outcry when the Discovery 3 came out. Like others have said, we all sort of got used to it and they even look quite classy now, even more so in D4 guise. Unlike the Discovery 5 which will always be weird... I also remember the outcry when the DC100 concept came out (around a decade ago - how did that happen?). Personally, I always liked the look but not as a Defender replacement. It's ironic, looking back, how much nicer the DC100 concept looked than the Defender that eventually arrived. It's like JLR were punishing everyone for their negativity! The Grenadier, on the other hand, is being made by someone who actually laments the loss of traditional style, so it's never going to be that controversial (details aside). I mean, who was actually surprised when the first pictures started coming out? It's exactly what we expected and near enough what so many hoped the new Defender would look like. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted May 27, 2021 Author Share Posted May 27, 2021 I must be in the minority then, always thought the D3 was a handsome beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soutie Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 I like the D3. It is the D5 which is fugly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 I didn't like the D3 when it came out, but it grew on me. I know they improved a lot of things on the D4, but I still think the D3 is the better looking version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 I do prefer the D4 grill but otherwise agree the D3 is better looking. Engine issues aside, it's probably more desirable anyway, on the basis that every new iteration of a Land Rover model has more annoying, pointless and complex junk added to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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