Experiences with combined pintle hitch and ball hitch?

[elbekko]

Currently I have this Dixon-Bate towhook:

It's served me very well over the years, but the lower arm is bent a bit from hitting stuff off-road, so the pin now requires persuasion from a heavy object to come out. And the ball is a bit too high for most trailers.

Since the car very much has to be multifunctional, both good off-road and for towing and travelling, I was looking into getting one of these combined pintle and ball hitches:

https://www.maxter-accessoires.com/1015/crochet-mixte-2-trous.html

Looks like it would bring the ball down quite a bit, and be less vulnerable, while still being safe (and easy) to throw a strap into for recoveries.

Does anyone have experience with these? Good idea? Terrible idea? "Just use this you dumbass" idea?

Sadly receiver hitches aren't legal here in Belgium as far as I know, and also pretty pricy...

[landroversforever]

Are you allowed any other kind of slider/Dixonbate setup? Even if you shortened it to one position and used it as the removable part? 

I’ve not personally used that kind but anecdotally a couple of people I know have had them and said they’re not much good at either job. 

[oneandtwo]

I tow using the standard Dixon bate ball / pin set up as above, mainly heavy trailers with tow rings. My Dixon bate pin is very scarred and noticeably worn from the tow rings - if using the combined jaw / ball as above I wander how damaged the ball part would get - any wear to a tow ball renders it useless.

[garrycol]

Do not use any ball for recovery - they have a habit of breaking and killing people - can handle relatively static loads like when towing but are poor at handling shock loads like in recovery and can shear off.  Use a dedicated rated recovery point attached to the vehicle.

[miketomcat]

I used the hitch you mention for many years on the back of 45. It's a good compromise. The ball is replaceable however mine never wore or bent. I towed everything with mine from Sankeys to boat trailers with rather more than the towing limit (low speed manoeuvring). I never had any issues using it for recovery mind I do have mechanical sympathy. It's worth noting you can only tow Sankey's with a rotating ring and commercial rings don't fit. The only reason I don't still have one is both truck have a Dixon bate adjustable slider so I have two ball hitches on sliders and one NATO that can be put on either truck. 

Finally they're good for touch parking  and I would happily have another.

Mike

[elbekko]

11 hours ago, landroversforever said:

Are you allowed any other kind of slider/Dixonbate setup? Even if you shortened it to one position and used it as the removable part?

Maybe, but I'm not a fan. There's always a ginormous plow attached, and with all the pins it can't do anything but rattle, surely?

4 hours ago, oneandtwo said:

I tow using the standard Dixon bate ball / pin set up as above, mainly heavy trailers with tow rings. My Dixon bate pin is very scarred and noticeably worn from the tow rings - if using the combined jaw / ball as above I wander how damaged the ball part would get - any wear to a tow ball renders it useless.

Well, I'm not planning on actually using a ring trailer. For towing just a regular ball hitch, a closed off pin is just nice for recoveries so the strap doesn't fly off.

4 hours ago, garrycol said:

Do not use any ball for recovery - they have a habit of breaking and killing people - can handle relatively static loads like when towing but are poor at handling shock loads like in recovery and can shear off.  Use a dedicated rated recovery point attached to the vehicle.

I knew this comment would come. Just because one guy on the internet abused tow balls until they finally broke, doesn't mean anything. I'd much rather trust a ball than a JATE ring or whatever other flimsy thing people pull from. The only downside with this setup is that it isn't double shear like the Dixon-Bate pin is, but there is a fair bit of extra girth and it's not much different from recovering from a NATO hitch.

35 minutes ago, miketomcat said:

I used the hitch you mention for many years on the back of 45. It's a good compromise. The ball is replaceable however mine never wore or bent. I towed everything with mine from Sankeys to boat trailers with rather more than the towing limit (low speed manoeuvring). I never had any issues using it for recovery mind I do have mechanical sympathy. It's worth noting you can only tow Sankey's with a rotating ring and commercial rings don't fit. The only reason I don't still have one is both truck have a Dixon bate adjustable slider so I have two ball hitches on sliders and one NATO that can be put on either truck. 

Finally they're good for touch parking  and I would happily have another.

Mike

Thanks for the real-world review Mike

[Blanco]

I have seen that combined pattern a lot in France mainly on light trucks, I think they are commonly rated at 5000kgs over there which suggests they probably are quite robust although I never tried one, I have DB's.

[miketomcat]

I can't remember exactly but they are definitely rated to 3.5t  and could well be 5t. I'd certainly trust it for recovery.

Mike

[Giles]

i've got one with a DB slider on a 110 - they stick out a bit so make a much better rear step than the DB pintle shown . Only comment really would be to double-check the hole pattern before ordering!

[elbekko]

The one I've linked is officially rated to 3.5T. There's probably some beefier versions out there.

[garrycol]

15 minutes ago, elbekko said:

I knew this comment would come. Just because one guy on the internet abused tow balls until they finally broke, doesn't mean anything.

I have no idea about the incident you are talking about - but here in Aust a few people have been killed where tow balls have failed during recoveries and flown into vehicle cabins killing an occupant .  Use a tow ball for a recovery in my country you will correctly abused for unsafe practices and investigated by authorities if there is an incident - if in a 4wd Club you will be either banned or required to undertake remedial safety training. 

[miketomcat]

I have to say over here it is common practice to use a tow ball for recovery, in fact on several occasions I've used one over a "recovery point" because I wasn't comfortable with the fabrication. The only time I've seen a ball fail there was a large selection of cross member still attached. I think in aus the gross weight of off road vehicles is considerably higher than Europe thus the failures.

Mike

[Bowie69]

As above, the tow balls are not the problem, more what they attached to, in some terrifying cases the cast balls have been stuck to a flat plate with a few blobs of MIG....

In a test done by an Aussie recently, he had to cut half way through the neck and completely abuse the recovery technique, and use a steel cable to make them fail. Even then, the bar gave out more on each pull too.

[landroversforever]

2 hours ago, elbekko said:

Maybe, but I'm not a fan. There's always a ginormous plow attached, and with all the pins it can't do anything but rattle, surely?

I was thinking of it being shortened just to make it a removable affair, so not in the form of a plough.

[elbekko]

Looking around, most websites seem to list similar stuff as rated at 8T for using it as a pintle hitch:

https://parksidetowbars.com.au/PINTLE-HOOK-COMBINATION-8T-INC-50MM-BALL/8510-fb030650-6afb-4271-8e57-855db89bebee/

https://www.huntsmanproducts.com.au/products/8000kg-pintle-hook-with-combination-50mm-tow-ball-rated-3500kg#prettyPhoto

https://www.lrchallenge4x4.co.uk/product/very-heavy-duty-chrome-pintle-tow-bar-hitch-hook-4x4-8-ton-50mm-ball-uk-spec/ (too bad this one is chromed)

I'd have no qualms about hooking a 6T snatch strap into that

[elbekko]

1 minute ago, landroversforever said:

I was thinking of it being shortened just to make it a removable affair, so not in the form of a plough.

As far as I know, anything removable has to lock in solid, so anything kept in with loose fitting pins is out.

[Escape]

11 hours ago, elbekko said:

As far as I know, anything removable has to lock in solid, so anything kept in with loose fitting pins is out.

Indeed, we've seen several Landies fail the MOT because the adjustable or removable tow ball wasn't completely solid. If it can rattle, it will be a fail. Usual 'cure' is to replace the pins with properly tightened bolts to remove all play. But that kinda defeats the purpose.

I don't see any problems using this style of hitch for recovery, it's the same principle as the NATO hitch that gets so much praise, only more practical because of the tow ball. Big plus is being able to replace the ball should it get damaged. I think there are different sizes available, the small one rated at 3.5ton, a bigger one rated at 5ton (but not suitable for a standard trailer hitch). Must say I like it, might make it a double order or play it safe and try one first.

I happened to see an Opel van with just such a hitch today, painted bright yellow. Surely meant for recovery when taking it on track. 😄

Filip

[taurion]

I have the four bolt version rated at 3.5t on both my RRC. I use the ball mainly but ring hitch gets  used to take the compressor out to the field for tyre repairs, not damaged the ball yet with the ring or any other objects that I have put on it during the last 10 years. On the RRC there is only just  enough clearance below the bumper to open the jaw to fully lock it and have the ball at the correct height for the trailer.

[BogMonster]

They are quite popular here but I don't particularly like them as in my view they are not that good at anything - clunky as hell with a NATO ring, fiddly with a 50mm ball and less solid than a NATO with a rope or chain on. Jack of all trades but master of none, which is fine if that is what you want.

I've got a dual arrangement on both my 110s with a NATO on the crossmember for off road towing (and if I use the Sankey though if I did it would probably fall to bits now!) and a combi ball/jaw on a removable Southdown hitch (300Tdi) and Terrafirma receiver hitch (Puma). The other vehicles just have a combi hitch on their standard height towing point so I can tow my boat (ring hitch on an unbraked trailer) and Ifor tipper (standard 50mm ball).

[garrycol]

I bought the combined unit shown below a number of years ago.  Supposedly 3.5t rating and I had it bolted up and using it.  For some reason I decides to see if a spare 3.5t rated 50mm tow ball I had would fit and still work as the balls were slightly different lengths. 

I took the ball out and shock horror the threaded shank on the ball was only 3/4 the diameter of a normal 50mm towball.  Definitely not 3.5t rated - I used it to tow my small 750kg box trailer until I replaced it with a different system to tow 3.5t.  A proper 3.5t 50mm ball will not fit what I had.

So whatever you buy - make sure you know what you are actually getting so there are no surprises.

 

 

 

[FridgeFreezer]

I have the bottom one from this pic - the one time I used it to tow a NATO trailer the rattling of the pin got incredibly annoying.

These days I have a standard 3.5t pin hitch on a plate for recovery and a stock tow ball on a drop plate for towing.

 

[elbekko]

39 minutes ago, garrycol said:

I bought the combined unit shown below a number of years ago.  Supposedly 3.5t rating and I had it bolted up and using it.  For some reason I decides to see if a spare 3.5t rated 50mm tow ball I had would fit and still work as the balls were slightly different lengths. 

I took the ball out and shock horror the threaded shank on the ball was only 3/4 the diameter of a normal 50mm towball.  Definitely not 3.5t rated - I used it to tow my small 750kg box trailer until I replaced it with a different system to tow 3.5t.  A proper 3.5t 50mm ball will not fit what I had.

So whatever you buy - make sure you know what you are actually getting so there are no surprises.

That's a bit surprising and worrying. The one I linked above has manufacturer paperwork of its type approval stating it's rated for 3500kg trailer weight (pardon the French, that's the document I could find...):

From the cross-section drawing in the document it also looks like the shank is the same size as the shank visible under the ball, so definitely a different design from yours I'd say.

Homologation 0101413.PDF

[Escape]

That certificate is a good find! Al-Ko is a well know and respected brand for trailer axles and coupling, so I expect it to be up to the job.

The tow ball is fixed with an M24, that means a sheer strength of about 13ton (if 8.8). The shank being slightly wider than 24mm and the clamping force also holding the tow ball should ensure a good margin of safety. I just checked the boltpattern on the P38 and can confirm it's 90mm, so it should fit.

Filip

[Chicken Drumstick]

On 5/18/2021 at 3:37 AM, garrycol said:

Do not use any ball for recovery - they have a habit of breaking and killing people - can handle relatively static loads like when towing but are poor at handling shock loads like in recovery and can shear off.  Use a dedicated rated recovery point attached to the vehicle.

Not that I'm directly disagreeing. But it would depend on the rating of the ball. They are not all the same. Personally I've never known one to break under this usage (25+ years motorsport). And they are approved for certain types of off road motorsport as recovery points, backed by the MSUK.

[Chicken Drumstick]

We have a combo hitch on the V8.

Only used for small light trailors, but has always worked fine. No real complaints. Has been on the vehicle for 2 decades maybe.