Applying to COTAG - advised to sort out underbody protection.

[PolarBlair]

After injuring my back for the second time during training and with two ankle biters arriving on the scene, the writing was on the wall and I left the marine reserves. No lid, but no regrets either. It was a fantastic experience and met some top blokes that became great mates.

But it has left a bit of a hole, and got me thinking about some form of voluntary work. This led to looking at local 4x4 response groups. Working with Police Scotland in adverse weather conditions, driving around district nurses, welfare checks for people living in remote areas, water distribution - all sounds worthwhile.

Training is conducted in your own vehicle and I was advised to get my underbody protection sorted as a priority especially with the increased length of my 130.

This was next on the list anyway and I've come here for some advice.

I've got a rough plan but would love feedback from the more experienced among you to avoid any obvious pitfalls.

 

1. Transmission

In a perfect world, a full length underbody skid plate sounds ideal. I have only found a few that come close to fitting the bill. 

 

1a) Sherrif Skid Plate -  5mm Aluminium

https://www.sahara4x4.com/b2c/producto/SheriffDefender/2/skid-plate-sheriff-for-land-rover-defender-90-td5-td4

Pros - Complete cover for transmission. Covers handbrake drum.

Cons - Too thin? No real company I could find - just a russian facebook page.

 

1b) N4 Skid Plate - 8mm Aluminium

https://www.4x4works.co.uk/product/n4-skid-plate-underbody-protection-land-rover-defender-110-130-1990-16-td5-transfer-box-bash-guard/

 

Pros - Bit a bit shorter than the sherrif skid plate but still covers handbrake drum. Very heavy duty 8mm aluminium. Well known company.

Cons - Protruding fixings potentially vulnerable? Maybe replace with domed hex head?

 

2. Steering Linkages & Front Diff.  (on this one I'm pretty sure.)

Gwyn Lewis Track Rod Guard + QT Diff Guard (or similar depending on avilability)

https://gwynlewis4x4.co.uk/product/track-rod-guard-defender-discovery-1-range-rover-classic/

 

Pros - Heavy duty galvanised steel box section. Integrates with diff guard

Cons - ??? Box section will fill with carp but will just have to be added to the increased cleaning regime all this will incur.

 

3. Steering Guard.  Didnt think there was much difference between the Gwyn Lewis and APT guards - please correct my if I'm wrong. I know the APT guards are confirmed to work with ARB bull bars but dont see why this would work too.

Gwyn Lewis:

https://gwynlewis4x4.co.uk/product/defender-heavy-duty-steering-guard-gl1203/

 

Pros - Heavy duty 8mm galvanised steel brackets. 8mm 5083 industrial aluminium.

Cons - ??? Hoping this is compatible with the ARB bull bar bumper.

 

4. Trailing Arm Slider - Only ones I've found. 6mm Aluminium

Equipe 4x4

https://www.equipe4x4.com/shop-equipe4x4/rear-arms-slide-defender-110-pair/?lang=en

 

Pros - A bit of additional protection given the length of the 130.

Cons - Mud trap? But same can be said of most of these guards.

 

5. Rear Diff Guard - Ideally would have wanted a southdown but theyre no longer made as far as i can see. If you have one - please drop me a PM.

On that note - are QT diff guards still available? My google-fu has failed me. The Terrafirma one looks very similar but I'm open to suggestions. Looks like I may also need a backup plan for the front diff to fit with the Gwyn Lewis guard.

https://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/tf854-terrafirma-rear-differential-guard-rear-defender-110130-2002-onwards.html

 

Not sure about pros and cons here. All of these units dont look as good as the southdown for skidding over obstacles.

 

6. Tree Sliders. Currently have 110 rubber covered side steps which hang far too low.

 

6a) Safari Equip. Galvanised steel powder coated black.

https://www.safari-equip.co.uk/shop/land-rover/defender/rock-sliders-1-defender-1/rock-and-tree-sliders-defender-130/

 

6b) Terrafirma. Galvanised steel powder coated black.

https://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/tf814-terrafirma-rock-sliders-with-tree-bars-defender-130.html

 

Not sure if there is any difference between these two - look like they came out of the same factory.

 

5c) Tembo. Not sure if Galvanised.

https://www.fd4x4centre.com/webshop_en/tembo-4x4-defender-130-hcpu-rock-treesliders-black-set-tb1050.html

 

More than TWICE as much as the Terrafirma sliders. If anyone knows if this is justified please let me know. Certainly look more beefy - but twice as beefy? Not sure.

 

7.  Bumper - Live out in the sticks and the wife took out a deer last year. Couldn't face that after all the effort put into this truck. only one way I can see myself going - ARB.

ARB Bullbar: 

https://www.lrsoffroad.co.uk/arb-defender-bumper-delux.html

 

Just waiting on one of these to come up for sale second hand within reasonable distance from me. I imagine most people ditch them due to the weight and impact on fuel consumption. I think that ship has sailed for me. Long term plan is to produce my own biodiesel. So going full send YOLO.

 

Your thoughts

So thats the plan - if you read all of this, thank you kindly. Open to any and all suggestions.

Keep in mind this is all with the aim of putting together a vehicle that will let me go out when everyone's been told to stay home. It's also going to have to survive very regular training which will probably involve purposefully getting it stuck, and learning how to get it unstuck.

I would rather go belt and braces to give myself the best possible chance of getting where I need to be, doing the job, and as a bonus, making it back with the truck still in one piece.

Also if I wreck the family car the wife will literally do a murder on me.

 

Cheers, Blair

[Nonimouse]

All very pretty stuff - but most of it is simply bolt on bling unless you are looking at doing competition. The underbelly plates can be useful for sliding over stuff, but rarely for more than the few seconds before you belly out.

There's a chap called Ben Hilton, he's with the Scottish 4x4 response. Ex Coldcream Guards, left his legs in Afghanistan (attention seeker). He's a very experienced responder and off road type. Have a chat with him. He's in Elgin. Sound bloke

I would suggest that in a 130, you protect the steering components (don't use guards, use gwyn lewis replacement steering bars), rear prop into diff and diff pumpkin, front diff pumpkin and sill bars. That's everything covered for non competetive off tarmac driving and you could enter the vehicle in mudmaster.

You don't mention tyres, but if you haven't already, grab some decent 255/85x16's. If it was me, I'd use Falken Wildpeake MT01's, simply because they are better than any tyre ive used before; most of the folk on here will suggest BFG's

Then learn what the vehicle will do, in that set up. Military off tarmac driver training is somne of the worst in the world, simply becuause the ethos on the vehicle is wrong. Get some decent training. Not Land Rover Experience. Duncan Barbour used to do some good stuff - he may be able to help. Response Training is usually good, but limited - I don't know about Scotland, but I've trained well over 500 response members form around the UK, on intensive courses, to support their in house courses.

There's a chap called Chris Putt - the Off Road Consultant on FB - sound bloke, covers Scotland. He's probably the best off road instructor in the UK (at the moment)

 

[Maverik]

I'd add less is more in the situation - of course you're at the whim of the 4x4 response people, it needs to tick their box, but I'm with Nonimouse, Aberdeen MRT vehicles had front steering guard and laterly diff pan protection. We did a lot of washed out track driving and across the heath. I can list the underbody damages we had in the 8 years I was in the team as I had to fix them. (Defender 110 Tdci's)

Bent steering guard and steering arm (after I pulled off the road to let a car past and bumped a big rock).

Front diff pan rock strike split the pan.

Rear tow hitch jaw ground strike - solved by remiving the jaw pin and stowing in the vehicle.

2x flipped the rear anti roll bar back on itself (after training on a 4x4 course).

We used to regulary take the trucks up the track from Spittal of Muick up the the saddle next to Lochnagar, all standard suspension /tyres and never had any problems bar the few abaove.

If I where you I'd be paying serious attention to the high water/fording abilities, can do way more damage with water imho.

[Anderzander]

1 hour ago, Nonimouse said:

I would suggest that in a 130, you protect the steering components (don't use guards, use gwyn lewis replacement steering bars)

+1 for this - also because it’s not just helping them from a direct impact, but impacts to a tyre can bend standard rods.

I’d also take the opportunity to switch to a Discovery style drop arm, rather than the swan neck Defender type. This means you have normal ball joints on all the steering rods.

The Defender type can be truly awful to change. 
 

https://gwynlewis4x4.co.uk/product/defender-drop-arm-conversion-kit-track-rod-bar-hd-steel/

 

My own opinion is that as much as underbody sliders might help slide you over rocks or stumps - they can also plough you into soft ground and I think there is quite a bit of that in Scotland.
 

I think there is no substitute for looking where you are going. 😊

 

[Nonimouse]

Excellent suggestion on the drop arm

 

[PolarBlair]

I knew this would be the place to ask and that's some seriously good advice.

I'm going to ask Western to unlock my first post so I can make edits to keep the build plan all in the first post.

[western]

Replied to your PM, First post & subsequent post are time limited on original poster edit time if I remember correctly, so you won't be able to change it, but Mods/Admin would be able to, Or start a thread in members vehicles forum & just update it as you go, again the edit limit time applies. 

Or just add a new reply in this thread to update your thoughts/progress. 

[western]

My own 110 gets used on forest tracks for recovery of rally cars, the only changes underneath are GL4x4 stainless steel steering bars & the Discovery type drop arm conversion, I don't have any diff, axle, transmission guards, they would just add to time when maintenance was needed. 

[miketomcat]

My ibex has HD steering bars, front diff guard and a tank guard with removable tow bar. Sills are box section anyway but plan to add tree slider/step tube at some point.

Our 110 has Fairey 525 with associated HD bumper, 10mm Ali steering guard (protects the bottom of the winch and steering bars), front diff guard and tree slider sills. It has standard tow bar/plow. 

Both are on 33" tyres.

I did Ladoga with similar protection to above and a rear diff guard on 45 (90).

All my trucks get used for club marshaling, green laning and towing.

Mike

[Ed Poore]

Second, third, fourth whatever everyone else has been saying. I've used and abused my 110 off-road and I have been known to use the chassis as a rock slider on occassion before. The only protection I've got on the vehicle is a front-diff guard, I have changed over to HD steering rods and track rods but largely because the old were shot and as part of my overhaul when I swapped to the Disco style drop arm.

The front-diff guard came about because I had Nige (@Hybrid_From_Hell) build up a pegged Ashlocker for the front so it seemed sensible to protect it. I hate it to be honest as it just traps mud and water. When I find the time I'll cut off the front of the diff pan and weld a HD one in in its place.

I have had to rebuild my towbar once when at Seven Sisters it decided to have a competition with a large chunk of Wales, it's undecided who won the competition since Wales sheared four bolts on the tow bar and bent a bracket. The 110 managed to remove a chunk of Wales and relocate another bit.

[cackshifter]

Tree sliders are good when someone opens their door into you with a satisfying clunk in a supermarket car park, and when they apologise you can just say 'No problem at all'

[Maverik]

8 hours ago, cackshifter said:

Tree sliders are good when someone opens their door into you with a satisfying clunk in a supermarket car park, and when they apologise you can just say 'No problem at all'

The only reson I kept mine!!!! 

[Anderzander]

I like the way the sliders fix on - less of a mud trap and easier to clean. 

[L19MUD]

On 2/16/2022 at 10:49 PM, PolarBlair said:

7.  Bumper - Live out in the sticks and the wife took out a deer last year. Couldn't face that after all the effort put into this truck. only one way I can see myself going - ARB.

ARB Bullbar: 

https://www.lrsoffroad.co.uk/arb-defender-bumper-delux.html

 

Just waiting on one of these to come up for sale second hand within reasonable distance from me. I imagine most people ditch them due to the weight and impact on fuel consumption. I think that ship has sailed for me. Long term plan is to produce my own biodiesel. So going full send YOLO.

Good luck with finding a second hand one! They just don't come up very often and when the do are still loads of money. 

[PolarBlair]

5 hours ago, L19MUD said:

Good luck with finding a second hand one! They just don't come up very often and when the do are still loads of money. 

I know 🥲. But a man can dream. They do seem to be the dogs gonads for deer protection. Where we live they seem to be especially suicidal. I've just taken to driving very cautiously through the wooded bits around us.

Wife's car has just had two big side scrapes fixed. This will be the family wagon too so I accept accidents will happen. All I can do is mitigate best I can 😬

[missingsid]

5 minutes ago, PolarBlair said:

I know 🥲. But a man can dream. They do seem to be the dogs gonads for deer protection. Where we live they seem to be especially suicidal. I've just taken to driving very cautiously through the wooded bits around us.

Wife's car has just had two big side scrapes fixed. This will be the family wagon too so I accept accidents will happen. All I can do is mitigate best I can 😬

Down here it is suicidal horses, my mate has lost two cars with horses running across the road from nowhere and sitting on his bonnet and windscreen.

[PolarBlair]

12 minutes ago, missingsid said:

Down here it is suicidal horses, my mate has lost two cars with horses running across the road from nowhere and sitting on his bonnet and windscreen.

Thats no fun at all. Thankfully thats not a very common occurrence up here.

[Northwards]

A while back I was doing lots of boat towing into the back of beyond most weekend. Scourie, Lochinver, Kylesku, Glenelg etc etc. Places a few might be familiar with from the NC500. Anyway, in the darker months there are deer everywhere - even the lighter months these days! 
 

I decided I didn’t want to be stuck in a blizzard on a mountain pass with the boat on the back, so my solution was an A bar and ‘splayed’ spots lighting up the sides of the road. That way I figured I’d see them coming, and worst case scenario I might lose a wing and a headlight, but the A bar would protect the radiator and keep me mobile. It’s a lot more discreet than a full bull bar.

[L19MUD]

54 minutes ago, PolarBlair said:

I know 🥲. But a man can dream. They do seem to be the dogs gonads for deer protection. Where we live they seem to be especially suicidal. I've just taken to driving very cautiously through the wooded bits around us.

Wife's car has just had two big side scrapes fixed. This will be the family wagon too so I accept accidents will happen. All I can do is mitigate best I can 😬

I do love mine 😀

[Anderzander]

Quite a few Bull Bars on eBay … none I can see by ARB and most local pick up only, but must be worth a look ? 

[PolarBlair]

29 minutes ago, L19MUD said:

I do love mine 😀

That's tidy

[Stellaghost]

3D metal printer and your sorted.......

I would have to rely on fabrication skills regards Stephen

[simonr]

I agree side bars / sill bars are a good plan.  Probably not worth buying expensive ones as they are designed to take the damage rather than your sills / doors, so you could treat them as disposable!

I've never needed (nor wanted) underbody protection.  I've done quite a lot of off roading over the last 35 years and have never damaged anything that would have been saved by protection.  I landed on the chassis of a 110 & squashed it once, bent a couple of axles.

I've bent plenty of steering rods.  Initially I boxed them in, similarly to one pictured above - but discovered I could still buckle the rod by turning the steering enthusiastically!  Solution was to use heavy duty bars.  Originally QT Services - then later Gwyn Lewis (on different vehicles).  Never worried about them again!

On the whole, skid plates & underbody protection are just mud traps!  I would avoid!

[elbekko]

I guess an LT230 is a bit more sturdy, but I split my BW hitting a rock on a climb, and not even at silly speed. Very much looking into a skidplate now.

And wasn't it @Chris Daviesthat got a rock through his LT230 cover plate at Seven Sisters?

[miketomcat]

10 minutes ago, elbekko said:

I guess an LT230 is a bit more sturdy, but I split my BW hitting a rock on a climb, and not even at silly speed. Very much looking into a skidplate now.

And wasn't it @Chris Daviesthat got a rock through his LT230 cover plate at Seven Sisters?

You and Chris are the only people I know that have damaged a transfer box. Even running a pto drop box that hangs lower than the transfer box I've not really worried about it. 

Mike