L19MUD Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 The day before a planned greenlane day I was leading, I decided to change the lower seal on the steering box. What came out with the seal was the remains of the lower bearing Luckily a mate had a spare box so I borrowed that and swapped it out. It managed the Pedders way from Thetford to Hunstanton with no issues Question is. What is the best option to sort my box or replace it? Can I just change the bearing or will the shaft be damaged and cause it to leak? Are any of the reconditioned ones any good? Should I stump up the money for a silly expensive new one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 The only recon units that I know of that were well spoken of were rebuilt by Adwest themselves, but I think they stopped a long time ago. The rest all seemed just to repaint them, and maybe fit a new output shaft seal on the buggered shaft if they felt generous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 There was a place that Car SOS visited that reconditioned a PAS box for them (they clearly had all the means to actually recondition it, not just wipe the grease off & re-paint) but I've completely forgotten the name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 I haven't needed a steering box overhaul but during reading around over the years I have made a note of two places. These will have been recommended - otherwise I would have ignored them. Kiley - Clinton Engineering Ltd. www.steering-racks.co.uk and www.dasteeringltd.co.uk/services/steering-boxes/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 I recall @Nonimouserecommended a place in Cornwall near me but I cant remember the name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 In theory, can the refurb of a steering box be done at home or do you need special tools and presses etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 8 minutes ago, monkie said: In theory, can the refurb of a steering box be done at home or do you need special tools and presses etc? I think if there's wear in the gears / shaft it becomes quite specialised, replacing seals/bearings is not a major hassle - the workshop manual used to have an overhaul guide for at least one of the boxes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 www.pss.co.uk are worth a call - based in North Walsham Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 On 12/30/2022 at 10:26 PM, reb78 said: I recall @Nonimouserecommended a place in Cornwall near me but I cant remember the name. http://www.kellybraysteering.co.uk/ There's also Marles, up by Leominster, then there's http://www.ics-steeringspecialist.co.uk/ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted January 3, 2023 Author Share Posted January 3, 2023 Thanks all. I will go through the suggestions this week and decide on which one to go for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneandtwo Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 If the worm is not damaged you can refurb the rest yourself at home. In my experience if the worm is pitted either on its bearing surfaces or the worm itself then it puts it out of the realms of DIY as a replacement worm requires complicated reshimming to centralise it correctly. if you just need to replace all three needle bearings and seals then it is half hour job, but you will almost certainly find the sector shaft needs rechroming on its sealing surfaces when removed. I am not convinced that some reconditioning company’s look at the worm unit when working on a box as it makes them uneconomical to repair as it requires a new worm at £100 and then time consuming re-shimming to correctly set the box up. Out of the ten or so boxes I have stripped in the last few years, at least half had pitted worm units. If there is interest I have another box here I was going to strip and rebuild I can do a step by step guide. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 4 hours ago, oneandtwo said: If the worm is not damaged you can refurb the rest yourself at home. In my experience if the worm is pitted either on its bearing surfaces or the worm itself then it puts it out of the realms of DIY as a replacement worm requires complicated reshimming to centralise it correctly. if you just need to replace all three needle bearings and seals then it is half hour job, but you will almost certainly find the sector shaft needs rechroming on its sealing surfaces when removed. I am not convinced that some reconditioning company’s look at the worm unit when working on a box as it makes them uneconomical to repair as it requires a new worm at £100 and then time consuming re-shimming to correctly set the box up. Out of the ten or so boxes I have stripped in the last few years, at least half had pitted worm units. If there is interest I have another box here I was going to strip and rebuild I can do a step by step guide. I would find that very useful and I am sure it would be a good write up for the tech archive too. I would much rather rebuild what I have at a fraction of the cost if I can. Other than the leak I was experiencing no other problems with it Not heard of rechroming before though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 @oneandtwo I'd be interested to see a tear-down / write-up yes please! You mention re-chroming the shaft, would a speedisleeve be a solution to that problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 I have just had a bit of a google and have found brand new sector shafts are available at a price - £285, no idea how that compares to the cost of re chroming https://britcar.com/product.php/91002/0/adwest_lwt_4_bolt_sector_shaft___right_hand_drive_defender @oneandtwo do you have part numbers for the bearings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 31 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said: @oneandtwo I'd be interested to see a tear-down / write-up yes please! You mention re-chroming the shaft, would a speedisleeve be a solution to that problem? second that regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneandtwo Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 41 minutes ago, L19MUD said: I have just had a bit of a google and have found brand new sector shafts are available at a price - £285, no idea how that compares to the cost of re chroming https://britcar.com/product.php/91002/0/adwest_lwt_4_bolt_sector_shaft___right_hand_drive_defender @oneandtwo do you have part numbers for the bearings? Bearings are 1x Koyo 2012 for the top cap and 1x Koyo 2016 and 1x Koyo 2020 for the lower section. I will try and strip one down either tonight or tomorrow. You will need to remove the sector shaft to assess the condition. If the bearings have damaged the bearing surface then it’s probably scrap as the rechroming and grinding is only normally performed on the seal surface. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, oneandtwo said: . If the bearings have damaged the bearing surface then it’s probably scrap as the rechroming and grinding is only normally performed on the seal surface. Do you think it would be possible to set up on a lathe and use a tool post grinder to re-surface the seal land and then fit an over size seal ?? regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, Stellaghost said: Do you think it would be possible to set up on a lathe and use a tool post grinder to re-surface the seal land and then fit an over size seal ?? regards Stephen I don't see why that would not work but it won't help if the bearing face has been damaged and needs machining as I suspect finding a bearing to fit will then be difficult I like the idea of the speedi sleeve instead of re chroming for the seal face as the tiny increased diameter from the speedi sleeve should mean you can use standard seals and that makes things easier down the line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 hour ago, oneandtwo said: If the bearings have damaged the bearing surface then it’s probably scrap as the rechroming and grinding is only normally performed on the seal surface. What about just using some loctite bearing fit or similar? @Happyoldgit this feels like it's turning into one for the tech archive what with having useful part numbers for bearings and the like 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said: What about just using some loctite bearing fit or similar? The roller bearings run on the face of the shaft itself so that won't work. https://www.wychbearings.co.uk/b-2012_needle_bearing_koyo.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 What about building up with spray welding and then grinding down on the lathe? Abom79 has some videos on that stuff, and uses it regularly for bearing seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 I undid the 4 bolts on the top cover and tapped the sector shaft out. Looking at the damage on it from the bearings I would say it is scrap. What should I be looking for other than this? The bearing mess has damaged between the two bearings on the inside of the box but given nothing runs on here I don't think that will be a problem. What should I be looking for on the worm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurbie Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 remove the worm from the housing and inspect the top bearing , this bearing race is part of the worm (unlike the other side wich is a "normal" bearing race) and can/t be fixed .... (or at least i have no idea how you would fix that ...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 There appears to be a slight taper to the shaft, so that the outside diameter of the splines is less than the bearing surface. If so, you could have it turned and sleeved, as long as you can get the sleeve past the splines. I think the worm has compound curves to the shaft for ball bearings rather than rollers, so sleeving can’t be done. It might be possible to have the shaft turned to take a complete bearing and race set, but I’d be very concerned about how much material was removed to do that and the remaining strength of the shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted January 10, 2023 Author Share Posted January 10, 2023 I won't be getting the shaft machined as that then brings with it the hassle of non standard bearings. I can buy the shaft new and am happy to do that so long as there is nothing else which means the box is scrap. Not to mention the hassle of finding someone to do it and properly in the first place I will have a look at how the worm comes out, that was not particularly obvious when I looked at it and I am conscious there was mention about it needing re shimming if messed with. need to try and find the overhaul manual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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