widget Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 I see it like this: Little guy (with good idea) sells through large reseller (with big marketing budget) to sell more units. Large reseller (with big marketing budget) agrees not to copy good idea from little guy. Little guy doesn't get agreement in writing, because he is a man of his word. Large reseller (with big marketing budget) copies good idea from little guy immediately, because he is not a man of his word and he has agreed nothing in writing. Big magazine (that takes major proportion of large resellers big marketing budget) wants to feature good idea. Little guy sends a sample good idea to big magazine to feature. Big magazine fits good idea to one of its cars. Large reseller (with big marketing budget) has chat with editor of big magazine (that takes major proportion of large resellers big marketing budget). Large reseller (with big marketing budget) threatens to withdraw some or all of big marketing budget unless big magazine features his 'improved' version. Big magazine editor (that takes major proportion of large resellers big marketing budget) is highly apologetic to little guy (with good idea), but he has little choice - and doesn't return good idea because it's already been fitted to one of bid magazine's trucks laden with 'freebies for glowing reports' already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Theoretically? Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Al, thank you for brightening up an otherwise frustrating evening. Lee, if you want to be taken seriously I strongly reccomend reading the rest of the thread before applying fingers to keys. Also, the devil is in the detail so f***ing well add some! Last weekend was the ultimate (still haven't heard from Mr Marsden how it went...) so I wouldn't be totally surprised as it tends to bring out some of the SR crowd (along with the talented drivers) and they may well have been trying to 'do their bit'. However, if you are simply trying to wind people up, please go and play somewhere else. I can't believe anyone would find it entertaining though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Nick Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Too many Dictionary swollowers here for my liking , and ye Lee grow up why dont you Hay ! I think the winer off that compitision that lee was at spurts one of them ea x brake whatsimicallits. Whondor what Shaun thinks of it ! So how many of you are going to the Trophy Challenge the weekend ? I'll be there just doing a bit of picture snapping, be nice to meet a few of the fellow off roaders. All the best now, keep up the Entertainment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I see it like this:Little guy (with good idea) sells through large reseller (with big marketing budget) to sell more units. Large reseller (with big marketing budget) agrees not to copy good idea from little guy. Little guy doesn't get agreement in writing, because he is a man of his word. Large reseller (with big marketing budget) copies good idea from little guy immediately, because he is not a man of his word and he has agreed nothing in writing. Big magazine (that takes major proportion of large resellers big marketing budget) wants to feature good idea. Little guy sends a sample good idea to big magazine to feature. Big magazine fits good idea to one of its cars. Large reseller (with big marketing budget) has chat with editor of big magazine (that takes major proportion of large resellers big marketing budget). Large reseller (with big marketing budget) threatens to withdraw some or all of big marketing budget unless big magazine features his 'improved' version. Big magazine editor (that takes major proportion of large resellers big marketing budget) is highly apologetic to little guy (with good idea), but he has little choice - and doesn't return good idea because it's already been fitted to one of bid magazine's trucks laden with 'freebies for glowing reports' already. 'Hitting Nail' and 'Head' spring to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 But what happens next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Why don't SR pay a royalty on a good faith basis to Xeng so they can sell the so called "improved" version of the Xbrake? Have they copied and of Devon 4x4 products yet I wonder? What became of the alleged Equipe legal action for having their extreme product range copied? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I've only heard rumours about what Equipe actually did but I enjoyed the story immensely and I'd be inclined to believe it. Put it this way, you don't mess with Italians... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Have they copied and of Devon 4x4 products yet I wonder? A certain winch anchor beared a remarkable similarity - apart from the fact that it bends in use! Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTJ Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Seems Maurice Wilks took a Jeep chassis in 1947, copied it and called it a Landrover so Colin is just following a long standing tradition So as you guys are outraged by this recent behaviour you will all support my campagn to get Ford to stop making these copies and you will all sell your vehicles. I think the likes of Lee are quite smart. By slagging off various parts of the X-Eng product he gets Simon to explain why it was designed that way. Pretty useful if you want to copy it but don't understand how it works. BTW I think Lee is named after General Lee and is really an american hence the spelling and grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minivin Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Seems Maurice Wilks took a Jeep chassis in 1947, copied it and called it a Landrover so Colin is just following a long standing tradition So as you guys are outraged by this recent behaviour you will all support my campagn to get Ford to stop making these copies and you will all sell your vehicles. I think the likes of Lee are quite smart. By slagging off various parts of the X-Eng product he gets Simon to explain why it was designed that way. Pretty useful if you want to copy it but don't understand how it works. BTW I think Lee is named after General Lee and is really an american hence the spelling and grammar I hear, I hear in the distance, the rumble, the rumble of a hored of flammers ready to burn you at the stake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Not at all. It's a good point. Only IIRC the 'Original' jeep was designed by Bantam but adapted by Jeep (who offered a better price) and built by both jeep and FORD as jeep couldn't meet the volumes of the US War dept contract. And now Ford has bought back the 'improved but non original' Land Rover design so it can offer its own improved version of its original product (now available from India) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Seems Maurice Wilks took a Jeep chassis in 1947, copied it and called it a Landrover so Colin is just following a long standing tradition So as you guys are outraged by this recent behaviour you will all support my campagn to get Ford to stop making these copies and you will all sell your vehicles. I think the likes of Lee are quite smart. By slagging off various parts of the X-Eng product he gets Simon to explain why it was designed that way. Pretty useful if you want to copy it but don't understand how it works. BTW I think Lee is named after General Lee and is really an american hence the spelling and grammar I know you posted to have a laugh and to provoke a response, so here goes.. Maurice Wilks was an Engineer looking to revive an ailing car company and increase exports of the UK. Rover had no association with Jeep and he used the Jeep as inspiration towards his design and product. A vehicle that was not on general sale or in competition. Colin reneged on a business realtionship with X-Eng so that he could line his pockets with no benefit to customers. I see no parrallel. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Didn't copy the chassis it was used as the base for the very first LR's, then the Jeep chassis was dumped in favour of the box section type that's still in use today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minivin Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 And there in-lyes the problem, both have used the basis of someone else's design, to produce something akin to the original to produce profit for their company. All lies in the grammatics on how you read into it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 And there in-lyes the problem, both have used the basis of someone else's design, to produce something akin to the original to produce profit for their company. All lies in the grammatics on how you read into it Remember who designed the JEEP?? It certainly wasn't an American design although the idea was American. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Seems Maurice Wilks took a Jeep chassis in 1947, copied it and called it a Landrover so Colin is just following a long standing tradition So as you guys are outraged by this recent behaviour you will all support my campagn to get Ford to stop making these copies and you will all sell your vehicles. I think the likes of Lee are quite smart. By slagging off various parts of the X-Eng product he gets Simon to explain why it was designed that way. Pretty useful if you want to copy it but don't understand how it works. BTW I think Lee is named after General Lee and is really an american hence the spelling and grammar TJ, good point BUT (a big BUT) its the way the company behaved that has annoyed all of us. There's nothing wrong with using inspiration; a la the Land Rover, the rather excellant 'Pull-Pal' inspired ground anchor in my garage, the new snorkel I'm going to put on my truck and the x-brake I have fitted to my truck. The ideas for all of them weren't new but all were designed from scratch with some very serious design work going in. I think going against Gentlemen's agreements, raining suppliers arround and aquiring things through the back door so your suppliers don't find out is, in my opinion totally spinless and just not cricket. Its also very bad business sence especially in the small world that is the British off road scene; all companies rely on suppliers to some extent and word has spread fast. Fortunatly I've not had the misfortune to meet the gentleman in question but I've hardly heard a good word about him. Its not been so much this single case that's done it for everyone but the straw that broke the camel's back; after several years of this sort of thing I've, personally, seen enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 So in conclusion Scrapiron are sweet and innocent and Si is as guilty as sin? I bluddy suspected as much, anyone that has legs that hairy, wears shorts at almost any time of the year, and is slightly eccentric has got to be guilty. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Of course Si's a rotter and scoundrel, disc handbrakes are nothing new, the yanks have been using them for ages so he's just selfishly copied the idea and used it to line his own pockets The difference being he didn't screw anyone over or lie in the process of doing so. Of course people copy ideas and design their own takes on them, often better than the originals. It's not the copying part that's the problem (although producing what is basically a straight copy of Si's idea is taking flattery a bit far), rather the questionable business ethics that have been involved. And orange paint smells of wee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange rover Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 I've only heard rumours about what Equipe actually did but I enjoyed the story immensely and I'd be inclined to believe it. Put it this way, you don't mess with Italians... and what did they do? didn't send the cosa nostra asfaik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 And orange paint smells of wee. And how did you find that out, the mind boggles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulublue Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Simon, sorry to hear that news. I was about to place an order for a Tubular bumper for my 8274 from Scorpion but I will no go else to someone else, First Four do a nice one. There are a few of us moving to disk hand break in the next 6 months, you will get all of them. And my scorp stickers are been removed also. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 That's a thing - I've run out of these stickers: (The Scrapiron ones not the SLRC ones) What are the chances of some more being made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROGUE TROOPER Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Maybe its time we copied something they made.........oh! Paint my springs Orange then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Yup, I'll second that FF. I could do with a couple. I'm sure a lot of the newer chaps could find a space for one or two on their Landies too Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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