Vehicle Trailer Towing - 90 or 100 ?

[pete110]

Morning,

Quick question on towing double-wheel trailers - with a 5.5m load-bed.

I am looking at a business sideline of specialist vehicle movement (small agricultural and prestige/classic cars) and will need to tow trailers of an all-up weight of 3500kg on double axles - which initially will be hired.

My query is - is there any advantage to using a 110 wheelbase Landy over a 90 ?.

I'm thinking the longer wheelbase and generally heavier weight will equalise any issues with trailer oscillation and generally be less skittish under load.

(Current Landy - early 70's - air portable MoD Lightweight - which i will not be using for work ! - mainly due to long distances..)

Thanks

Pete

[GBMUD]

A 110 should be more stable and has a bigger fuel tank so less stops.

Remember that you will need a tachograph for a commercial journey with a GVW over 3500kg.

Having towed with both a 90 and a 110 I prefer the 110 but it was not a very fair test as my 90 had a 2" lift and MTs but the 110 is standard height on AT/road tyres.

Chris

[Tanuki]

Will you need to be doing any "precision" reversing? The big thing about a 90 is that it has both short-wheelbase and minimal rear overhang so you can position your towed trailer with wonderful accuracy in the narrowest of spaces.

Some years back at the Bath&West show with my 90 I reversed a big Bateson twin-axle flatbed in through a gap that was only a couple of inches wider. A few dozen onlookers said things like "You did the impossible!" and they had been taking bets on me failing.

I offered to do it again - if they all bought me a pint at the Stockman's bar that evening. They all declined.

[pete110]

Remember that you will need a tachograph for a commercial journey with a GVW over 3500kg.

Chris

Thanks Chris - will be using 3500kg maximum - with a trailer of around 750kg - plus loads up to 2750kg.... if that make sense...so no tachograph ?

Cheers

Pete

[Bowie69]

As far as I can work out, it's worked on gross vehicle weight (maximum loaded weight, otherwise known as MAM (maximum authorised mass), so you will need one, as the 90/110 + trailer MAM will be in excess of 3500Kg.

[pete110]

Will you need to be doing any "precision" reversing? The big thing about a 90 is that it has both short-wheelbase and minimal rear overhang so you can position your towed trailer with wonderful accuracy in the narrowest of spaces.

Some years back at the Bath&West show with my 90 I reversed a big Bateson twin-axle flatbed in through a gap that was only a couple of inches wider. A few dozen onlookers said things like "You did the impossible!" and they had been taking bets on me failing.

I offered to do it again - if they all bought me a pint at the Stockman's bar that evening. They all declined.

Cheers Tanuki - no 'precision reversing' - all large sweeps of tarmac or concrete - but I too admire your skill !

Interesting that you mention the Batesons as expect to be using them on the smaller agricultural stuff - with an Ifor Williams CT177 for the vehicle jobs.

I will call on you to tidy up my yard parking if you are ever in the North West - currently I use my Uncles td5 with a nose mounted tow ball - to achieve a semblance of decent parallel trailer parking !

[pete110]

As far as I can work out, it's worked on gross vehicle weight (maximum loaded weight, otherwise known as MAM (maximum authorised mass), so you will need one, as the 90/110 + trailer MAM will be in excess of 3500Kg.

Isn't that that the Train weight (GTW) you are talking about...?

[Bowie69]

Nope, train weight would what it all weighs when loaded, Maximum authorised mass is what it all COULD weigh.

Suffice to say, for commercial towing with anything other than a small car/trailer combination you need a tacho.

Here: https://www.gov.uk/tachographs

Do you need a tachograph?

You must use a tachograph if the vehicle you’re driving comes under EU or AETR rules.

From here: https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/goods-vehicles

EU rules

EU rules apply if:

• the maximum permissible weight of your vehicle/vehicle combination is more than 3.5 tonnes

Pretty clear IMHO.

[pete110]

Nope, train weight would what it all weighs when loaded, Maximum authorised mass is what it all COULD weigh.

Suffice to say, for commercial towing with anything other than a small car/trailer combination you need a tacho.

Here: https://www.gov.uk/tachographs

Do you need a tachograph?

You must use a tachograph if the vehicle you’re driving comes under EU or AETR rules.

From here: https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/goods-vehicles

EU rules

EU rules apply if:

• the maximum permissible weight of your vehicle/vehicle combination is more than 3.5 tonnes

Pretty clear IMHO.

Agreed.

Odd though - that it only seems to apply to commercial runs - if you were shifting your own stuff around privately for non-profit - you're not bound by it - bless our Govt. - only interested if they can make a buck..... or make thing complex - oh and the EU

[Bowie69]

Technically this is only an EU law, so we can blame a previous administration for allowing the EU to write our laws for us!

[pete110]

Technically this is only an EU law, so we can blame a previous administration for allowing the EU to write our laws for us!

Is that the Ted Heath one - who took us in, in '73 ....

I love Europe as a place - but 2 layers of Govt when one is b.awful - no thanks

[samd35]

Agreed.

Odd though - that it only seems to apply to commercial runs - if you were shifting your own stuff around privately for non-profit - you're not bound by it - bless our Govt. - only interested if they can make a buck..... or make thing complex - oh and the EU

you can even run HGV for private use with no tacho its purely for commercial use / profit making once you go over 3500KG and there have been murmours that they are going to bring it down to 3000KG so even couriers running transits will come into it. And when they pull you it takes some explaining / convincing that you are running private and not commercial having been pulled twice in my 110 with a 3500kg 14' flat bed trailer on running purely private once with a digger on the back that id bought for building an extension and second with tractor parts and agricultural parts for our small holding. so it is worth running tacho if it is commercial.

[Darren Roberts]

How about 100" DIscovery for a more pleasureable experience on the longer runs?

[tacr2man]

110 much more stable, and a better ride , traded for slightly less power to weight ratio JMHO

[pete110]

Thanks All - wise words and points to ponder......

[dirtyninety]

A 90 is a FAR superior towing vehicle than a 110. The distance from the pivot (tow bar) to the rear axles is very short (think like a tractor, hitch is between the wheels)

The closer the tow bar is to the rear wheels, the more stable the trailier will be. Long overhangs give the trailer more of a lever to chuck the vehicle around.

having towed with various vehicles, NOTHING beats a TD5 90 (300tdi 90 comes close)

[Cynic-al]

Yes, the dreaded tacho for commercial use! I once priced one up for the Isuzu, £500 fitted and calibrated, however the Isuzu has the correct speed sender so it's just a plug in job, not sure about land rover. Plus they need re-calibration every 2 years.

[landroversforever]

A 90 is a FAR superior towing vehicle than a 110. The distance from the pivot (tow bar) to the rear axles is very short (think like a tractor, hitch is between the wheels)

The closer the tow bar is to the rear wheels, the more stable the trailier will be. Long overhangs give the trailer more of a lever to chuck the vehicle around.

having towed with various vehicles, NOTHING beats a TD5 90 (300tdi 90 comes close)

That is one arguement, however The longer the wheelbase of the towing vehicle the better for stability.

[Maverik]

A 90 is a FAR superior towing vehicle than a 110. The distance from the pivot (tow bar) to the rear axles is very short (think like a tractor, hitch is between the wheels)

The closer the tow bar is to the rear wheels, the more stable the trailier will be. Long overhangs give the trailer more of a lever to chuck the vehicle around.

having towed with various vehicles, NOTHING beats a TD5 90 (300tdi 90 comes close)

You've not take into account the resisting lever arm which is the distance of the front wheels to the pivot point (rear wheels) - on a 110 its rather bigger. even though your tow point if further away.

A 110 is in my opinion a fair bit more stable than a 90 especially with big loads, I was pretty close to maxing out the 3.5t when I picked up my scrapper 110 and that wasn't a pleasant drive home towing with the 90...

Mav

[LiftedDisco]

The other thing is you will need an Operator's Licence if you are towing for Hire and Reward...

[western]

& a operators CPC

[Blanco]

110 every time IMO, 90 might be better for manoevering, but the swing of the 110 can be improving by distancing the ball from the cross member, I have used a Peak trailers damper on mine to good effect (not only absorbs pitching motion but adds about 6 or 7 inches in front of the ball).

[pete110]

Thanks Everybody - plenty to ponder there.....

Have a CPC already for 7.5 tonners - will check if it needs changing

[simonr]

Having towed heavy loads extensively with both - a 110 every time for me!

Personally, I've found the 110 more stable, but I appreciate opinions differ. However, the extra mass of the 110 means that when the trailer decides it wants to be in control, the 110 is not as easily pushed around!

A 90 with a stabiliser is pretty good too - as the extra mass of the 110 is just acting as a damper. Adding a stabiliser to my 90 totally transformed the towing experience.

With that in mind, I'd just buy whichever is more use / you like the most

Si

[Davedef90]

Didn't think you needed an O licence if you were using a dual purpose vehicle for work? Which a LR is classed as.