Good Samaritan liability

[Gazzar]

We've some serious floods on the roads around here at the moment. I was coming back from dropping off some bits and passed a car that had failed, just off a roundabout, on the road into the town. The driver was in quite a state and the water was rising, so we agreed that I would tow the car out, to a place well above the flood, mostly off the road into the very wide footpath. It's a semi rural part of the road, so the car wasn't obstructing anyone or anything.

Obviously I took everything very, very slow, and there were no issues, but did I put myself at risk from a legal perspective?

 

[Bowie69]

Yep. Any damage would be your fault, I'm afraid....

[monkie]

But most importantly you did the right thing and got someone out of trouble to safety. I was very glad of a kindly Land Rover driver who pulled an inexperienced 18 year old me out of floods in my first car. Life lesson learnt but was taken out of danger to wait for recovery. 

 

[jeremy996]

6 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

Yep. Any damage would be your fault, I'm afraid....

Thankfully, (or not), it is not that simple and would have to be tested in Court.

(But as a personal guiding rule, it should keep you on the side of the angels. If it is too hard, the vehicle to be rescued looks dodgy, or the rescue is dangerous, get the person to safety and seek alternative assistance; the Dynamic Risk Assessment!).

As a general principle, the law says that if you act in good faith as a good samaritan, it should not be held against you. If the recovered vehicle was damaged, the claimant would have to show that both you caused it and you were negligent. That is quite a test and is why I have legal insurance (less than £30 a year) and I am a member of 4x4 Response. (If I log it with my controller, I am covered with 3rd party liability to £5Million).

[smallfry]

I had an insurance claim against me about 15 years ago for helping someone whose car was blocking a junction. I towed them clear, but despite my warnings that the  brakes would have no power assistance, the guy still ran into the back of the Land Rover, breaking the grille and denting the bumper and bonnet.

I will not tow anyone now unless I know them. 

[jeremy996]

Just now, smallfry said:

I had an insurance claim against me about 15 years ago for helping someone whose car was blocking a junction. I towed them clear, but despite my warnings that the  brakes would have no power assistance, the guy still ran into the back of the Land Rover, breaking the grille and denting the bumper and bonnet.

I will not tow anyone now unless I know them. 

How did the insurance claim turn out?

One of the reasons I have legal cover is to ensure that if my insurance company turns out to be spineless, I'll get my day in Court. Just the threat has worked so far.

[Gazzar]

The lack of brakes and steering is a very good point, and was discussed beforehand. I was in first, low on tickover. So very low risk of damage, but leaving the car where it was would have been stupid.

I'd do it again. It was the right thing to do.

It was an older BMW, and I fear it's a write off, but I hope not. Not what you want before Christmas.

 

[Ed Poore]

Or being an old BMW you could do what my ex housemate did. His beemer was playing up and had it booked in at a garage so asked if I could tow him there. He'd not been towed before so warned him about what was about to happen and we stuck to some open local roads initially to get a feel for it.

I'd made a passing comment about not being afraid to ride the brakes a little bit where appropriate to keep tension in the rope. I noticed the LR struggling a little more than I expected but as agreed a couple of miles down the road I pulled over to see how he felt about the next bit to hear the engine running.

Turns out he couldn't be bothered to ride the brakes so just left it in gear and had tried to start it (the misbehaviour) but didn't think it had worked. It had and it was running so we detached and he drove to the garage and I followed instead of towing him all the way.

I've got plenty more stories but you can normally gauge a character by having a brief chat and I have walked away a few times.

[smallfry]

55 minutes ago, jeremy996 said:

How did the insurance claim turn out?

One of the reasons I have legal cover is to ensure that if my insurance company turns out to be spineless, I'll get my day in Court. Just the threat has worked so far.

I don't actually know for sure. The guy claimed that I had stopped without adequate warning and the towrope I HAD SUPPLIED was too short for the purpose (It wasn't) I wrote back to them and heard no more. I had protected no claims in any case, but assumed they had rejected it.

[jeremy996]

44 minutes ago, smallfry said:

I don't actually know for sure. The guy claimed that I had stopped without adequate warning and the towrope I HAD SUPPLIED was too short for the purpose (It wasn't) I wrote back to them and heard no more. I had protected no claims in any case, but assumed they had rejected it.

Sounds very likely. I have little sympathy for people who attempt to exploit the good nature of others. These days I use a rigid tow wherever possible as it reduces the scope for idiots to create more chaos. It is such a shame that common sense is rare in the wild.

[ThreePointFive]

One thing to note with the motor legal protection offered by insurers is that they may only cover you for no-fault cases. I noticed when renewing with one insurer that it was carefully worded so you would not receive any help with claims made against you. 

So in these scenarios, not useful to you.

[FridgeFreezer]

That's why groups like 4x4 response have cover / protection IF you are doing something in an official capacity under their banner. I believe they can and will raise an incident on their system to cover you if you find someone in need in a situation like that so you're covered - but not sure how universally true that is.

These days, if in doubt, film it on your mobile phone including you explaining the recovery to them and them agreeing to it.

[reb78]

I am a miserable old git and confess I dont tend to stop and offer a tow unless its a really dire situation and lives are at risk for the reasons mentioned on this thread. Driving in the snow in the past couple of years, I went through some pretty deep and slippy stuff. Towing stuck cars to safety would have been a never ending job and the drivers would only have tried to continue and got stuck again. A very irate audi driver was very angry i didnt let him out in front of me onto the grass beside the hard shoulder on the A30 near Okehampton in the heavy snow in 2019.... there was space behind me so I didnt feel too bad not letting him go in front... he was only behind me for about 20 seconds as he got stuck and blocked the path for other 4x4s that could get through and off the dual carriageway... people dont know their vehicles limits (or their own).

[sean f]

It is unbelievable how some people just assume you will help them and then get up set if you don't.

I had a Mercedes driver get stuck on the beach and come up and inform me I had to recover his car as it was stuck, since he had just driven past me onto the beach and been told by the driver of an old Subaru pick up I had just towed out (he asked nicely for help) not to drive on the sand as it was soft, and been told we couldn't stop him there wasn't a lot of sympathy and he was informed I didn't have to do anything. We relented in the end and with the aid of the driver of the Subaru driver I winched him up just as the tide was coming in and the water was coming up over the sills, it was very tempting to leave him there, where he was stuck would have been about 6-7ft deep at high tide, so we could have just watched his car go under.

[jeremy996]

Mr FridgeFreezer has it right. For members of a 4x4 Response group, each group is required to have a public indemity policy. It is a "last resort" plan, so your personal insurance cover will be looked at first in the event of a claim, but in order to put it on risk, the incident needs to logged with the local controller.

Taking a phone video of the incident and the acceptance of a tow on a good samaritan basis is a good idea. Make it clear that recovery is that their risk, for all you know the vehicle could be a pile of rust. Once you ask for money, it becomes a commercial transaction and you are governed by the laws of contract, which makes a suitable level of skill and a duty of care relevant. Good Samaritan = Don't ask for payment.

If life is not at risk, no one has any obligation to do anything. Even if life is at risk, you are not obligated to do any more than summon the authorities. If you can do something without putting yourself at risk, then morally you probably should, but there is no compulsion and it is your risk assessment not theirs. 

[FridgeFreezer]

If people are stroppy I'd leave 'em, they are never worth the hassle as you know they're going to come back a month later claiming you scratched their paintwork or something ridiculous.

[Escape]

Me and @elbekko had some good fun towing out cars stuck in the grass field converted serving as a parking lot for a festival with rain pouring down most of the weekend. Most people we helped rewarded us with some beer tokens, which made the weekend even more fun. But we did have a few instances when things didn't go smoothly. Like a cyclist trying to pass between 2 cars, despite there being a tow rope. Or people unable to find their towhook, let alone fit it (left hand thread on a lot of cars apparently). Best was an Oodi driver without patience, who started waving money in front of me to get us to help him first. Or another Oodi, a quattro this time, taking a huge run up just to make sure he'd get properly stuck in the ruts dug by Landies towing out cars. He made it pretty far, part of it just on momentum with all wheels free. And it took a Defender with a snatch strap several attempts to get him out. I had just returned from the last show of the night, sitting in my car having a drink before hitting the sack and enjoying the show. 🙂

More on topic, I'll gladly help anyone who needs it and asks for it in a respectful manner. And have done so repeatedly in the past, including towing a car with a woman and child from the center lane of one our busiest highways. May not have been without risk, but definitely the right thing to do, but for those people and to avoid more chaos and accidents in the increasing traffic. But some very good point about liability, something I'll keep in mind in future. Maybe if you live in an area where there's a good chance to asked to help stuck cars, you could keep a standard form in the Landie for them to sign. If they're of good faith, there shouldn't be any objections.

Filip 

[mad_pete]

I keep forgetting about videoing things. Videoing is a very good idea in many cases.

[FridgeFreezer]

40 minutes ago, mad_pete said:

I keep forgetting about videoing things. Videoing is a very good idea in many cases.

It's amazing how people's attitude changes when they realise you're filming them... I had someone scrape the side of the ambulance (they didn't see me and tried to change lanes!), when I pulled over to see if they were OK they were calling me all the c***ts under the sun, threatening to go to the police etc. so I said "OK let's go to the police station then", they drove off (not towards the nearest station) so I followed them, when they eventually pulled up (at a friend's house) I immediately hopped out, took photos of their car from every angle making sure it was VERY obvious I was getting the number plate too, and then kept the phone in my hand pointed at them while they ranted a bit more before stopping to ask why I was filming them - when I said "for the Police, like you said" they changed their tune pretty sharp and the whole thing got dropped.

Also called their bluff because I knew there was CCTV on the roundabout - a lot of the time these days you're in shot of a CCTV camera if you're on the public highway and you can request the footage under GDPR etc.

[BogMonster]

21 hours ago, smallfry said:

I had an insurance claim against me about 15 years ago for helping someone whose car was blocking a junction. I towed them clear, but despite my warnings that the  brakes would have no power assistance, the guy still ran into the back of the Land Rover, breaking the grille and denting the bumper and bonnet.

I will not tow anyone now unless I know them. 

Normally if somebody runs into you then it's their fault, so how did that logic work?

[FridgeFreezer]

23 minutes ago, BogMonster said:

Normally if somebody runs into you then it's their fault, so how did that logic work?

Modern logic - something bad happened, I demand someone give me money!

[jeremy996]

9 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Modern logic - something bad happened, I demand someone give me money!

Many a true word said in jest!

If someone provides a service and gets paid for it, it is not unreasonable for the client to be entitled to a suitable quality and that care be taken. If someone is acting as a good samaritan, then I think the only reasonable expectation is they don't make the situation substantially worse! To fail to adjust for the lack of power assistance on brakes and steering suggests they were dumb; to argue that the tow rope was too short upgrades them to malicious!

[Tanuki]

In times-past I've used my 90TD5 to haul dozens of bogged cars off country-fair/agricultural-show carparks; I always offer them the end-of-the-cable and expect them to suitably-attach it to their car.

[If they wrap it round a track-rod ARB or FWD driveshaft rather than attaching it to a proper tow-point on their vehicle, welll...]

Only had a couple of problems - one was a bunch of lower-class-types in a lowered-class VW Golf; dragging them out across ruts meant their stupid front spoiler snagged on the ruts and they then drove over it. Resulting in much Anglo-Saxon language from them. I happily unhooked the cable and left them - ranting and still unable to make forward-progress. I gather they called the AA - who said "it's on private land - we can't help you".

Other time, I got a load of abuse because I refused to tow-out a vehicle whose driver was clearly drunk/drugged/otherwise-so-mentally-retarded-they-should-not-be-driving. In that case I was happy to have prevented them regaining traction only to then wrap themselves round a 300-year-old Oak-tree on the exit from the site.

Only offer to recover normal-people.

[Escape]

3 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

It's amazing how people's attitude changes when they realise you're filming them...

I don't think I'd be too happy to tow someone who had a camera or phone pointed at me... If they don't deem the situation serious enough and still have time/ attention to spend making a video, they're obviously not in urgent need of my help.

[mad_pete]

It’s more for you to video them saying yes I accept liability before you do the tow. 🙂 maybe a once round the car for existing damage.