western Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 36 minutes ago, monkie said: I think Western made a good point about the correct belt tension. How confident are you that the torque wrench you are using to set the tension is correct? Also I understand you shouldn't really use a click type torque wrench to set the tension on a timing belt tensioner. Can you borrow a dial type one just to check? Got to be worth a go? I have always used my Norbar click stop torque wrench, never had a noise that Mav is getting, mines not due a timing belt for another 10000 miles yet, I usually do it at 55000 miles intervals & always replace the tensioner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted May 22, 2022 Author Share Posted May 22, 2022 25 minutes ago, steve b said: Have you taken that tensioner off and checked the wheel is at 90 deg to the base face ? The shim has proved something about the tensioner or mounting face is not running true . Steve I've got 3 tensioners, 1x genuine, 1x OEM and 1x britpart - the pictures attached are the OEM and Genuine. But the way the clamp work, it only clamps the bit of plate under the actual wheel, the rest of the plate just sits and doesn't obscure. I ran all 3 tensioners one after the other with exactly the same setup and they all let the belt run about 1.5mm off the outer edge of the FIP pulley, as seen here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 This is very interesting to see studied in real detail , are you heading towards running built with the shim in place ? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted May 22, 2022 Author Share Posted May 22, 2022 21 minutes ago, steve b said: This is very interesting to see studied in real detail , are you heading towards running built with the shim in place ? Steve Yes, I'll hopefully get her back together tomorrow. I'm interested to see what the belt does when hot, hopefully the inspection hole will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty_wingnut Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 there's no shoulder on the tensioner locating peg? Someting stopping it going all the way home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted May 23, 2022 Author Share Posted May 23, 2022 1 hour ago, rusty_wingnut said: there's no shoulder on the tensioner locating peg? Someting stopping it going all the way home I thought about about that - had a similar experience on a ships propeller actually - but in this situation the locator hole onto the dowl is pretty loose fitting, its not like a close fit really for example you can tilt the back plate when its on the dowel. - good thought though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 Probably being stupid, but what's the line on the case here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted May 23, 2022 Author Share Posted May 23, 2022 Think it was just a dirt mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted May 24, 2022 Author Share Posted May 24, 2022 So having had a interesting chat with my Dad and talking throughsome things, he's mentioned something not considered yet, that the timing/crank pulleys themselves could be adversely worn... I'd not really considered it but after looking at the FIP pulley (attached), I can see that could be part of the problem... I've seen a lot worse but i've already demonstrated it seems to take precious f-all to influance the running of the belt. So ordered new FIP/cam pulleys... if I can get away without bodging with a shim then I'll try it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 The belt doesn't look ragged on the edge on the pics though I can't quite tell. Are you sure its the belt catching and not say the timing cover oil seal dragging on the belt or bottom pulley? Are there any rub marks on the cover other dust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Do Zeus still do timing gears? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted May 24, 2022 Author Share Posted May 24, 2022 2 hours ago, Eightpot said: The belt doesn't look ragged on the edge on the pics though I can't quite tell. Are you sure its the belt catching and not say the timing cover oil seal dragging on the belt or bottom pulley? Are there any rub marks on the cover other dust? Its not ragged but is has started to wear the body where it was rubbing the lip on the tensioner. see crude cross section drawing, the dashed part has started to wear away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted May 24, 2022 Author Share Posted May 24, 2022 2 hours ago, Nonimouse said: Do Zeus still do timing gears? I don't think so. Richard Turner had some choice words for those kits, I've not seen one in the flesh but apparently they weren't up to the job they were created for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 10 minutes ago, Maverik said: I don't think so. Richard Turner had some choice words for those kits, I've not seen one in the flesh but apparently they weren't up to the job they were created for. There are people who have proven that Richard was not entirely right. Jeff R on here has put years of hard abuse into his Zeus equiped 200tdi, with nary a problem. If I could find a kit I would swap out the belt for gears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 12 minutes ago, Nonimouse said: There are people who have proven that Richard was not entirely right. Jeff R on here has put years of hard abuse into his Zeus equiped 200tdi, with nary a problem. If I could find a kit I would swap out the belt for gears An LR mechanic friend told me years ago that part from being noisy, they had a habit of shearing the dowel off the end of the cam shaft. I don’t know how many he saw do that, but he did work on at least two vehicles with them fitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 16 minutes ago, Nonimouse said: There are people who have proven that Richard was not entirely right. Jeff R on here has put years of hard abuse into his Zeus equiped 200tdi, with nary a problem. If I could find a kit I would swap out the belt for gears Ask Ralphs opinion too... @western Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 The thing is though in this specific case, we don't yet know what the problem is. There are thousands of 200Tdi's still happily running on timing belts. Replacing the belt and sprokets with gears would be throwing in the towel and side stepping the issue. I'm hoping that Maverik is able to get to the bottom of whatever the issue is so we can all learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 1 hour ago, reb78 said: Ask Ralphs opinion too... @western I had a set fitted in August 1996, bought in June 1996 direct from Zues, the gears were fine but a misaligned FIP pulley put out of line stress on the spring loaded idler between FIP & camshaft, it sheared on me on the A30 one evening after collecting my 110 from the garage I bought it from after a MOT & service, I removed the gears & went back to factory timing belt set up, the kit completed 116,229 miles removed in Dec 2000, I did send the kit to Zues & they inspected it & concluded the FIP pulley had been running out of true which caused the idler shaft on rear timing chest to shear off, there was no other damage, I wasn't very pleased as the kit was around £600 at the time I bought it. Pretty sure Zues no longer make or sell the kits, think they also had problems with the case harding of the finished gear teeth. Somewhere I have the report from Zues. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 6 hours ago, Nonimouse said: Do Zeus still do timing gears? Ah Zeus, moderating memories of trying to keep order in the mammoth thread on the old LRE forum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Zues only do brake stuff now, https://www.zeus.uk.com/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 This may not be relevant to toothed belts but flat belts rely on a crown on the pulleys to keep them in place. The belt centres itself where the highest friction is. Is it possible a slight crowning has worn away? Otherwise it points to a misalignment again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share Posted May 25, 2022 Pulleys arrived, one on the left is genuine, the one on the right is turners supply country of origin- China. It's as rough and your granny's chin, the oil seal land is rough, pretty unimpressed same pish as the crank pulleys. If turners are building these into engines it's pretty shocking. I won't be putting this in my truck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Eeek, no, nor would I be. Time for a trip to LR, if they still make them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 15 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: Eeek, no, nor would I be. Time for a trip to LR, if they still make them. Totally agree I do know of a man who could make one - he's shy of money at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) Gosh! That is poor. Have Turners anything to say about it? Unlike them to supply such poor parts! Edited May 25, 2022 by reb78 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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