Post your long-term feedback on paints / rustproofing / coatings etc,

[FridgeFreezer]

Following a comment in my Ambulance thread that's gotten a lot of responses it's clear there's a fair degree of interest in paints / finishes / corrosion protection etc. and the fact that people on the internet very rarely post any follow-up a year or more after painting something to see how the product is actually performing in the real world.

So - maybe we can make this thread one where people post up what they painted, when they painted it, what they used, and how it's holding up 12+ months down the line - ideally with before & after photos.

 

 

So, from my original post...

August 2021 - I stripped all the powder coat off the bull bars, cleaned, repaired, treated the rust, and then primed with Corroless Rust Killer primer & painted with black semi-gloss aerosol (I think from Arc Rite).

This shows the powder coat coming off, the state of the steel underneath it (mostly clean, some rusty areas) and a coat of the Corroless primer on the exposed part

Fast forward to today and maybe ~5000 miles later (the ambulance lives in a covered barn for ~9 months a year when not on a trip), this is what they look like:

 

 

This is disappointing to say the least!

Bumper was painted with the same top-coat at the same time but that's galvanised so stone chips are no problem.

 

 

On the plus side, the wheels were painted with Arc Rite's NATO green in 2018 and those are holding up fantastically well - perhaps because they are genuine Wolf rims that arrived primed from the factory?

[Snagger]

As I said on the other thread, my bar has remained rust free over two decades with a decent coat of red oxide followed by Rustoleum satin black.  The NATO hitch and fuel tanks were similarly coated on their exteriors and remain rust free (externally, sadly not internally).

The same Rustoleum aerosol cans were used to paint the rear cross member of the galvanised chassis over Acid-8 etch primer (not the strongest bonding stuff, in all honesty), with no issues at all since it was done in 2004.   
 

I think a couple of good coats of red oxide followed by some smooth black Raptor or similar might be a good idea for a front facing item like a bull bar or winch mount, prone to stone chipping.

[JeffR]

Cant comment on paint longevity other than to make a couple of observations on modern paints. Hammerite (smooth and hammered) is a total waste of space these days. One will spend more time applying the stuff than it will stay put on whatever you put it on. Cheap paint in aerosols from the pound shop lasts longer (really!).

What I can comment on is rust converters, cos I get thro a lot :

Corroless is not as good as it thinks it is, tried it and abandoned it when rust came back after less than a year...

Hammerite rust killer , great for indoor stuff, not good for outdoor stuff, rust returned in less that 6 months, bloody expensive too.

Hammerite No1 Rustbeater primer stuff, yeah , don't bother, seems to promote rust if left outside for more than half an hour without a top coat.

Phosphoric acid sort of works, forget to rinse off the excess and everything goes sticky and goopy, cheap tho.

What I do use and recommend is Neutrarust 661. Stuff does what it says on the tin:

The bulkhead bracket was done with corroless a couple or three years ago and needs re-done, the steering box lock plates and that big brackety thing were done at the same time with Neutrarust and still show no rust creeping thro after a couple of years outside.  Also seems to stop aluminium corrosion (instructions do not mention using on aluminium, but I'm a rebel.....).

Primers seem to stick to it quite well and, if one forgets the primer, so do topcoats.

Sadly it aint cheap, but as it seems to work.......

 

[Daan]

That bulbar is only rusting at the front, where it gets hammered with stones, from the cars in front of you. For that sort of thing, IMO only Land Rover chrome lasts. My chassis is the one thing that still looks ok, and that had the treatment. The bottom looks like it is dragged across the road for a while but still no visible rust.

The axles, which get a really bad hammering when going off-road, were zinc plated, but that also wore off fairly soon.

So if I were to do the axles again, they will also get galvanized.

My bulkhead and grille panel were blasted and zinc sprayed, they are still good, apart from if you try to weld it or where the side of the bulkhead is dragged against a rock.

Generally, If I paint something, I use no-nonsense zinc primer, and whatever color is on top, or leave it bare. But the way I treat the car, rust will show one day.

 

[Happyoldgit]

Good thread, potential for being made sticky [pun intended] if enough people contribute.

[FridgeFreezer]

27 minutes ago, Happyoldgit said:

Good thread, potential for being made sticky [pun intended] if enough people contribute.

Thanks, HoG. Hopefully we can keep it on a factual track with only direct experiences and pictures rather than a bunch of opinions / preferences / suggestions etc.

[smallfry]

52 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Thanks, HoG. Hopefully we can keep it on a factual track with only direct experiences and pictures rather than a bunch of opinions / preferences / suggestions etc.

Exactly what I was thinking. Just post direct experiences, and not reply to others arguing the toss.

Let viewers draw their own conclusions.

[Mossberg]

One thing I will add here is my dislike of some of the rust converters.  I used a product called aquarust and I have been very disappointed. This is meant to be a paint on, let it do its wizardry, then paint over. Apparently you need rust for it to work  - but not too much, so you have to remove a lot so there is just a light amount - but how do you know you have enough but not too much! Also you are not supposed to put it on bare steel, so what happens if you over clean an area where you have shiny steel showing?

I think the main thing is to remove or kill the rust as much as possible. My go to on this is electrolysis where anything will go into the tank. I then also use a phosphoric acid solution to kill any deep pitted rust. Where I have to do chassis work I try to mechanically remove as much rust as possible, then use the phosphoric solution again.

I can't yet comment on the longevity of my painting.  I have used Bonda Rust Primer  - basically a red oxide Primer- then a top coat. I will have to wait a couple of years before I comment if it works.

One thing I would say is I believe a really important part of any coatings is the preparation of the part to be painted. I believe the surface must be rust free, dirt and oil free, and abraided to help any coating grip what you are painting onto. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Mossberg

[miketomcat]

45's chassis was spayed with por15. 5 years and one Ladoga later, the areas that were rusty (surface rust) the paint was good still stuck and still black. However anywhere that was shiny metal or previously painted (original lr paint) the por15 had come off, the metal was rusty along with some of the previously painted.

The ibex chassis is galv but I painted it with 2k etch and 2k top coat. All the suspension, axles etc I just painted with 2k top coat. 8 years on (5 on the road) the chassis is mostly good the paint has come off where it's been rubbed on the ground etc. The axles are better than I expected there's still paint there but they could do with a repaint now. The springs are looking rougher but that's to be expected.

The 110 was done with jotamastic 87 (now 90) and arcrite defender chassis black. 3 years on some rust spots are just starting to show through where there was surface rust prior to painting, but on the whole it's holding up well.

The Kit car built years ago came powder coated and I painted the suspension with hamerite. The powder coat came off in sheets a year later and the hamerite didn't last that long. I re-painted with single pack enamel which seemed better but I soldthe car a year later.

Mike

[ped]

i've been shot blasting as much as possible then spraying with zinga followed by either jotum marine two pack or a oil based satin black bog std chassis paint
i did have all the suspention parts powder coated but i don't think they'll last as well as the previous powder coating as when they were originally done 15-16yrs ago they were zinctexed first -my mate worked at the powder coaters and made sure that they had the full treatment

[FridgeFreezer]

Since I mentioned it - these Wolf rims were bought primed (genuine) and then painted by my good lady with Arc Rite NATO green in 2018, still looking spotless (accumulated dirt aside!) - must've done at least ~15k miles including gentle off-roading:

 

[Mossberg]

7 hours ago, ped said:

i've been shot blasting as much as possible then spraying with zinga followed by either jotum marine two pack or a oil based satin black bog std chassis paint
i did have all the suspention parts powder coated but i don't think they'll last as well as the previous powder coating as when they were originally done 15-16yrs ago they were zinctexed first -my mate worked at the powder coaters and made sure that they had the full treatment

That Zinga paint sounds interesting. We used to use a galvanising paint at work, usually over where galvanised sheet had been painted. That was a spray can but to be honest I was very disappointed with the results  - but that was a spray and usually just sprayed over ground smooth welds, so not cleaned in any way.

Do you apply the zinga by brush? Also do you need the associated solvent if you are not thinning it down as that looks quite expensive. 

[ped]

i'm spraying it on and it needs thinning as it is very thick and lumpy so a strainer is needed
i'm just using std thinners and it is fine but they recommend their own thinners but then all pait companies do

[Mossberg]

42 minutes ago, ped said:

i'm spraying it on and it needs thinning as it is very thick and lumpy so a strainer is needed
i'm just using std thinners and it is fine but they recommend their own thinners but then all pait companies do

Thanks for the reply. I find cleaning rust from parts to be generally tedious, especially when it's part of a chassis. Having the best coating to prevent rust returning is a bonus. I have been using red oxide- do you feel this paint is better.

[ped]

Without doubt but i think it needs to be blasted prior to painting

It's used off shore so has to be good

[Mossberg]

Thanks ped, I agree blasting is the best preparation and it would be nice to have that option. Apparently the surface it leaves is ideal for paint adhesion. When I clean after electrolysis I wire brush then rough it with a course paper, but I don't believe this is as good as blasting. 

[ped]

I spent 7 years shot blasting hgv's and it is the best prep there is but paint needs to be applied asap as rust will start as soon as it is blasted

[DavidRS]

I currently have a long list of cars all needing protecting on the underside, it’s so difficult to invest in a product that you know won’t look like the titanic in a few years.

i have been using buzzweld Re, followed by cio on my current project but havnt been super happy with the results. 
months on im afraid to touch any parts I’ve used it on, anything more than a feather duster and it chips. 

blasted all parts, stripe coat, 2 coats of re , 3 coats of cio and once the chassis is all back together it’ll get the top coating of WAR. 
 

At nearly £30 a liter I’d have hoped for more. 
 
I miss going to halfords and buying the cheapest spray paint for a bike frame 😂

 

once the vehicle is back on the road I’ll report back. 

Ps, not a Land Rover pictured but my discovery 2 is up next for the paint treatment! 

[Gazzar]

A topic I'm very interested in. I hate rust.

I think a successful rust stopping strategy is multi layered. 

Treatment/ removal: shot blasting, phosphoric acid, or as close as you can get.

Inhibiting: lead/zinc. I'm using epoxy zinc phosphate. It's sticking like glue to the steel.

Encapsulation: prevent the steel seeing oxygen and water, and other contaminants. Epoxy, once again, epoxy mastic enriched with aluminium solids, many layers.

Decoration: as required and to protect the epoxy, which isn't cosmetically UV stable.

Then, if necessary, high abrasion areas, a tintable stone chip, followed by a anti corrosion wax.

 

Interior, box sections etc. High quality anti-corrosion creeping wax.

 

Again, not a Landrover, but my current distraction.

[Bowie69]

That sounds like my approach too, epoxy/2K with heavy metals in the paint seems to be working well on everything I've done in recent years, plus can be painted over with anything really. 

The internal wax is still the one neglect occasionally, but honestly it is exceptionally important, as most structural rust does come from the inside - and anything you see on the outside is pretty obvious and can be touched up easily. 

[Ed Poore]

Been doing some bushes on the 110 and as I've got a stock now of POR15 I've been redoing bits whilst I can.

As a point of reference this radius arm was painted about 6 or 7 years ago with Buzzweld products. Sorry I didn't clean it but just attacked it with a wire wheel. Bits of the paint have rubbed off back to bare metal where the wheel was rubbing for a bit. Other bits still had paint and undercoat and some bits the paint had simply come off. This is one of the better surviving parts (if I remember I took it back to bare metal last time).

I'll try and remember to get a picture of the wheel carrier because that was done in a similar manner yet is just rust now. I guess the paint doesn't like all the road spray because nothing beyond half way back has lasted at all. In fact I was treating the rear cross member to some paint as well and bits of the chassis back there still had original LR paint on (cross member is newer) and that took a while to get off with the wire wheel. I'll also see if I can get a photo of the A frame arms because I did them in POR15 earlier in the year.

[Ed Poore]

Following up some very rough painting with a borderline knackered brush but it's underneath the vehicle so I wasn't going to spend all the time cleaning out the spray gun for such a small job. The POR15 flows quite well and smooths itself out nicely so what looked like it had a load of brush streaks in it when put on actually turns out looking pretty got for a slap and dash.

First coat of top-coat going onto the cross-member, that was just after putting it on with the stiff brush. It'll smooth out quite nicely and I'll do at least one more coat but treat it to a new brush.

And ignoring the rest of the underside - I will get around to that at some point but the A-frame link painted back in sometime around Easter. Hasn't had a trip to Scotland yet to put it through all the salt but has been through Seven Sisters. So far pretty happy.

[simonr]

My favorite paint, for quality of finish, is CombiColour.  It goes straight on to metal but is not very mechanically tough.  This works well as a 'dipping paint' - dip the part in paint & let it drip-dry.  It leaves a good thick coat that looks like powder-coating.

Anywhere that's subject to abrasion (anything underneath, bumpers etc) I use floor paint.  No particular brand - I currently have Brewers own-brand dark grey.

I figured, if it will last for a few years of fork-lift traffic on a floor, it will last a while on a vehicle.  Generally I use it straight on to the metal, but sometimes (where I really don't want to paint it again) on top of zinc rich primer.

[ThreePointFive]

I always found that Hammerite Kurust worked well, it seems to 'convert' the rust rather than sit on top of it, meaning that further sanding didn't compromise the surface.

https://www.hammerite.co.uk/product/kurust/

Hydrate80 by Bilt Hamber is something I've posted a lot about, I rate anything they make. It seems a more reliable product to stop rust returning and it doesn't even need to be over-painted, but it does go on thick and part of the protection is the seal it makes over the afflicted area. This has a knock-on effect on the quality of the finish as sanding is difficult.

https://bilthamber.com/product/hydrate-80/

As for paints, I've been quite surprised by the Simoniz range of spray paints, particulrly the engine enamel and imaginatively-named Tough Paint series.

https://www.holtsauto.com/simoniz/products/one-coat-tough-paints/

https://www.holtsauto.com/simoniz/products/engine-enamel/

 

I can't say any paint has been brilliant though, all have been disappointing in longevity. I only use spray paint, perhaps brush-on is better, but nothing that involves touching the surface matches the quality of finish even from a rattle can.

[Ed Poore]

23 minutes ago, ThreePointFive said:

I always found that Hammerite Kurust worked well, it seems to 'convert' the rust rather than sit on top of it, meaning that further sanding didn't compromise the surface.

https://www.hammerite.co.uk/product/kurust/

Funny, Dad does too. Uses it extensively when he's repaired his Shoguns. Also funny that he's on his third or fourth in the 15 years I've owned my 110