Improving the heater

[Rick in Aldershot]

On 12/11/2009 at 11:13 AM, nicks90 said:

coat the insides of all the glass with cheap silicon based car polish - Mer wax works brilliantly.

Stops the windows misting up at all, means you dont even need to put the heater on "screen" and can leave it blowing on your legs. Also works great on yer spectacles so they dont steam up when you walk into the pub on a cold evening, on bathroom mirrors, insides of your house windows so they dont get condensation etc

Hi Nick,

Another trick is to apply surfactant to your glass. Sofactant is the world's greatest water repellent. It's the main constituent of those expensive anti-rain and anti-mist products like RainX, sold in Halfords and the like. IT'S ALSO THE MAIN CONSTITUENT OF FABRIC SOFTENERS that you put in your washing machine. 

CAUTION - Never apply RainX or other surfactant to the outside of the front windshield of a Defender! Because the windscreen is flat upright, as versus most of today's cars' sloped windscreens, the airflow will create problems with pooling the raindrops, rather than blowing them away. It'll also cause your wipers to shudder.

DO, however, apply fabric conditioner to the inside of the windscreen, as well as to both the inside and outside of all other glass. This includes polishing the headlight glass and your mirrors.

Sofactant will stop misting on the inside glass. Sofactant, because it repels water, will also help keep the outside glass clean(er) than it'd otherwise be, because the moisture in dirty road spray can't stick to the glass so easily. That means the dirty road spray will partly wash your headlamps rather than just dimming them. It'll also reduce the notorious build up of muck on the rear door glass -- retaining some rear view -- by up to 30%. (But, as I say, Do NOT apply to the front windshield.)

You can also choose some very nice smelling fabric conditioners, as well as saving yourself a pretty penny. 

Have fun,

Rick

[Bigj66]

Once you’ve checked and sorted out your heater you could consider fitting a heated screen. If you put it on straight away it won’t get a chance to mist up and any that does will soon clear quickly.

[paime]

I've been doing a bit of thinking about this whilst my dash is still exposed. Has anyone ever tried using the gubbins from a 12V hairdryer in their dash? I'm particularly thinking about the windscreen demisters here. Something like this: https://www.a2zcamping.co.uk/caravan-accessories/12-volt-hair-dryer-defroster.html taken to bits and then some ducting stuck on the end and routed via a t-piece to the window vents. It would mean the landy's heater is only for the footwell but i don't think that would make a difference. A simple switch on the dash somewhere would turn it on and off. Thoughts?

[Arjan]

This is not for those who want originality and warmth...

RED90 did a piece on this conversion - he did a much neater job than me - but if you want warmth, this generates serious heat..

This thing starts bring warm air through the 300 Tdi within 5 minutes and makes people mid Winter in (we tested it by - 27 C) wanting to open windows in the 110. In the back.

However, it does require a bit of fabrication.

We have planned for the new galvanized bulkhead to take this monster as it keep the 110 hot..

[TSD]

33 minutes ago, paime said:

Has anyone ever tried using the gubbins from a 12V hairdryer in their dash?

If you haven't already, have a read of this thread. I tried a 20W PTC heater inserted in the windscreen vent tube. It did actually work over a tiny area, but you need a lot of airflow to demist a decent amount of screen, 170W hairdryer may not be enough for a decent effect. Typical automotive PTC heaters user for quick demist are over 1000W.

It will certainly work to some extent, the question is only if it works well enough to make it worth the time and effort. I'm building another car from the ground up, and I'm not putting a PTC in the (completely custom) heater box.

[paime]

14 hours ago, TSD said:

If you haven't already, have a read of this thread. I tried a 20W PTC heater inserted in the windscreen vent tube. It did actually work over a tiny area, but you need a lot of airflow to demist a decent amount of screen, 170W hairdryer may not be enough for a decent effect. Typical automotive PTC heaters user for quick demist are over 1000W.

It will certainly work to some extent, the question is only if it works well enough to make it worth the time and effort. I'm building another car from the ground up, and I'm not putting a PTC in the (completely custom) heater box.

Just read through that thread and fell into a rabbit hole of PTC heaters. Interesting stuff! It's amazing nobody has come up with a kit that solves this issue yet, presumably because it's quite difficult to do.

14 hours ago, Arjan said:

This is not for those who want originality and warmth...

RED90 did a piece on this conversion - he did a much neater job than me - but if you want warmth, this generates serious heat..

This thing starts bring warm air through the 300 Tdi within 5 minutes and makes people mid Winter in (we tested it by - 27 C) wanting to open windows in the 110. In the back.

However, it does require a bit of fabrication.

We have planned for the new galvanized bulkhead to take this monster as it keep the 110 hot..

What in the name of all things holy is this beastie??

[Arjan]

😂

The name is heater, seriously heater..

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/36-000-btu-12v-auxiliary-heater/A-p4240006e

Brand Name	Mobile Climate Control
Item Name	36,000 BTU 12V Auxiliary Heater
Type	12V Auxiliary Heater
Voltage Rating (V)	12  V
Current Rating (A)	14  A
FYI : 36,000 BTU is about 10500 Watts......

RED90 did a great write up many, many years ago (I have the PDF for you if need be) and through the ol LRA Forum (remember Addicts...) mine came from Canada to France through a relay..

He did a very, very nice build and made it almost look standard - very nice..

Thing generates serious heat - use it quite often to heat up deep frozen meals en route....

[Anderzander]

36,000 BTU 😳

[Arjan]

As I said, we use it to heat deep frozen meals en route.... 😄

the blower has 3 settings and moves some serious amounts of air...

I have another one here that is even bigger waiting to go into the Series Hybrid...

[Arjan]

On a more serious note..

These units show just how bad the standard heater is LR fitted to the Defenders eo.

Both with 200 & 300 Tdi's we found that there is plenty of energy in the coolant system to make for loads and loads of hot air without causing the engines to run "cold".

A lot of heat is lost in the "ducting" between the matrix and the opening on top of the windscreen. When the electrics are redone in the 110 (moving the fuse box & relays) I will at that time also redo the ducting and have direct side demisters and some ducting to the rear of the vehicle.

[Anderzander]

The airtop in my 80” is about 7000 BTU I think, and albeit in a small space, that’s hot enough to dry wet clothes, burn your hand, and find I have a dry mouth when my daughter has secretly turned it up a notch.

[paime]

2 hours ago, Anderzander said:

36,000 BTU 😳

Is it legal? Do the ice caps melt a bit when you turn it on?

[paime]

3 hours ago, Arjan said:

😂

The name is heater, seriously heater..

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/36-000-btu-12v-auxiliary-heater/A-p4240006e

Brand Name	Mobile Climate Control
Item Name	36,000 BTU 12V Auxiliary Heater
Type	12V Auxiliary Heater
Voltage Rating (V)	12  V
Current Rating (A)	14  A
FYI : 36,000 BTU is about 10500 Watts......

RED90 did a great write up many, many years ago (I have the PDF for you if need be) and through the ol LRA Forum (remember Addicts...) mine came from Canada to France through a relay..

He did a very, very nice build and made it almost look standard - very nice..

Thing generates serious heat - use it quite often to heat up deep frozen meals en route....

If you've got a link to the PDF that would be great. I'm looking to make some changes in advance of winter this year rather than waiting until the temperature drops to unhappy levels.

[Snagger]

I second removing the dump valve from the heater intake duct as a cheap start.  Of course, a leaky heater matrix will also add moisture to the heater exhaust.

Next, try the snow cowl for the intake.  Not the useless type that are a scoop for ram airflow and rain, but the type that cover the intake and drop down over the side of the wing.  They should stop most rain or snake getting into the intake duct in the first place.

After that, just try to make sure that the interior carpet and sound deadening are dry.  If they’re wet, as soon as they start warming, water will evaporate from them and condense on the coldest part of the interior, which will be the glazing, though I’d expect it to be away from the demisters, not where they’re blowing.

[Maverik]

With a standard heater "well fettled" you can get quite a lot out of it. Mine is pretty much standard (LR90) and only struggles to clear misty windows in the harshest of wet winters, even then you only need to give a quick wipe to give it a help in hand. If you've taken all the following steps and you're still not happy then follow an upgrade route...

Make sure your cables are adjusted properly

Have a healthy coolant mix (correct ratio of water to coolant)

I used Discovery 1 heater pipework to connect the engine to the matrix (its slightly larger diameter)

Matrix is healthy and clean

Blower motor is healthy

Blower motor plugs are clean and are making good contact.

Blower control slide is clean and making good contact.

Additional - open up the bulkhead aperture to the full width of the heater box inlet.

Add a "snow cowling" to the inlet on the wing (as stated above).

While I had the Thermostat housing off my Def 200tdi I did notice the casting was causing a bit of a restriction to the heater matrix supply port so I opened it up a bit by running a drill down it.

I struggle to justify doing any more upgrade type work as it actually does a pretty decent job.

I also find if you have the right hand slide down a bit to push air out the lower vent as well as the windscreen vents that helps clear the cab hugely.

 

[ianmayco68]

Have a look on a web site called T7 Design they do blower units similar to the one red90 fitted , and all the ducting and vents . I’ve been looking into using one in my project, but I think sorting the pipe work out would help a lot .

https://www.t7design.co.uk/ here’s a link they make lots of good stuff.

[Snagger]

I find my standard Defender heater very effective.  As Maverick said, it’s just a matter of making sure it’s clean, well adjusted and sealed.

A heated screen is a blessing if you’re getting condensation issues.

[Altitude]

Would adding a snorkel to heater intake increase cab heat & cleaner O2?

[Maverik]

8 hours ago, Altitude said:

Would adding a snorkel to heater intake increase cab heat & cleaner O2?

Problem with that is, you run the risk of the engine potentially sucking air the wrong way down your heater ducts, I.e sucking from your cabin

[Anderzander]

I can’t see how increasing the airflow would make it warmer ? 
 

They are good heaters though - they  just need to be in good order and set up right. 

[Mo Murphy]

I would have to disagree Stephen, I would say they are just adequate heaters if correctly set up.

Mo

[monkie]

49 minutes ago, Mo Murphy said:

I would have to disagree Stephen, I would say they are just adequate heaters if correctly set up.

Mo

I totally agree. My heating system is in good shape in terms of clean matrix and adjusted cables.  In winter in my 110 hardtop,  I actually have to turn the heat down after a little while. 

[simonr]

I went though loads of options to improve the heater in my 110, including:

• Running the heater motor at 24V through a DCDC Converter & proper speed control.  Replaced the slider on the dash which gave zero to double speed
• Adding a PTC heater between the plenum chamber & heater inlet
• Adding a spring loaded flap to the top of the heater inlet which could be pulled shut with a choke cable.  Then added a duct between the plenum chamber and passanger footwell to give me a recirculated heat option.
• Replacing the foam gasket between the heater and bulkhead
• Adding the 'Defender Demister' side vents

I liked the Defender Demister vents - they worked surprisingly well.  Replacing the foam gasket made a big difference to the airflow and how fast everything heated up.  This was on a 4 year old vehicle, so it must have been badly fitted in the factory.

The recirculation option did make the inside warmer, but obviously made the demisting useless.

The PTC worked pretty well - but made my headlights dim noticably wen it was switched on.  It drew about 100A.  Made demisting quite fast but barely made a difference to warmth in the cab.

Doubling the speed of the fan really didn't help at all.

The best thing I did, which made most of the above obsolite was to fit a heated screen.  It was blistering!  Ice on the windscreen to clear in 60 seconds.  Mist on the inside to clear in 20 sec. 

[Arjan]

For those who want to have toast warm Winters :

http://www.red90.ca/rovers/Heater/heater.html

He did a very, very nice job.

[reb78]

Eberspachers can be found fairly cheaply these days. The heater can be used for demisting and cab kept toasty by the eberspacher. Mine will have the cab at 30C if you let it. It also means I can leave the dogs in there in the winter and they will be happy.