Smego Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 100 200TDI panel van type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Might take a while to heat up then! If at all. An auxiliary heater would probably be the way to go for the rear, diesel-fired air heaters are available. Tap 'Eberspacher heater' or 'Webasto heater' into Google and you'll find some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smego Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 They are mega expensive, was thinking something like the surf just run copper pipes to the rear and get a unit like the link above but that is only useful if the water gets hot enough...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scapajo Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Gave this a shot at the weekend on arrival of my bilge blower, a simple, quick and very effective mod. Big thanks for the post. Now where the snow gone!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest_001 Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Dear Ruuman, Thanks for your initial posting on the fan upgrade 4 years ago!!!! My original fan was found to be seized up and the matrix had a smattering of mud in it as well. I've just done exactly as you described, replaced the fan, cleaned out the matrix and it now works a treat. I cannot believe the air coming through the vents now. Demist actually works - perfectly . The funny thing is the air going in through the wing duct makes a bit of noise! So chuffed with the mod. cheers LRmud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve King Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Well we seem to have come to the conclusion that most Defenders have inefficient heaters. I would love a Eberspascher or Webasto, but can't justify the expense! As my 110 is parked outside my garage which has mains power, either an oil filled radiator or a pre heater device fitted to the engine will have to suffice on cold days! I will look into the options. Insulating the rear of my 110 TD5 hardtop made a huge difference, however I would say that the truck came with heated seats as standard and these are brilliant ! You do not need heated seats once the engine is up to temp!! To be honest the heated seat can get too hot! Radiator blinds; I've not tried one, but fitting a rectangular rubber sheet over part of the rad grille (avoiding the inter cooler) worked really well on my previous 300TDI. What would be great is shutters/blinds over the radiator that open/close according to the air temp. Cars in the 50s I think had rad blinds operated via a chain on the dash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 How about a fume curtain so you are only heating the front part of the cab ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frax Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I used a roller blind or parcel shelf cover, got it at a scrap yard and fitted it to the rear bulkhead behind the seats and fitted a hook to the roof. You can put it up in winter or whenever and it keeps the heat in the front and also blocks people looking at what is in the back, I have heavy tint on back window. You just need to find one the correct width. Work a treat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Excellent recycling there Frax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandu_222 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Hi All, well with winter approaching and my rag top feeling colder than usual it was time to start playing with my heater again. Last year I stripped it down, cleaned the matrix inside and out and resealed everything and re-set the control cables. This did improve things a lot, but still not what I'll call great. I happened to be trawling ebay dreaming of VNT turbos and came across some carp listings for electric superchargers for 40quid (these were discussed ages ago and don't work). There really boat bilge blowers for clearing fumes from engine bays. It suddenly occurred to me, these things generate no pressure, but do shift a lot of air. A bit of measuring and search made me purchase this. It's an Attwood 3000 4inch bildge blower, 22quid + delivery, it draws very little power and shifts 250cfm (obviously with no restriction), 100% duty cycle and is designed for a marine environment. IMG_4004.JPG we then removed the odd air intake tube from the wing IMG_4000.JPG and cut the legs off the blower IMG_4005.JPG With some brute force, it fits snugly inside the intake pipe. As single self tapper fixed it in place. some minor trimming was also required. IMG_4009.JPG IMG_4011.JPG To finish off we wired the blower directly to the motor power on the defender heater box. This means the bilge blower also operates at 2 speeds. I also increased the fuse to 20amps instead of 10amp. So what are the results, well I'm pleased, fan speed 1 actually does something now fan speed 2 much better I'd estimate maybe an extra 50-75% throughput. Though with the extra increase in flow it has revealed some leaks in my heater box, so still improvements to be had. There is slightly more noise from the additional fan, but you can't hear it over the engine. There is a nice roar coming from the vents though. Only issue so far is it maybe over cooling my heater matrix at slow speeds!! Truck being modified is a 1990 200tdi 90, thought I believe everything up to TD5 has this layout. Cheers Ruu Ruuman, as I understand the additional fan has only one speed and when together with standard one it looks like having 2 different speeds? So now, the difference in 1st and 2nd speed remains as in standard option? there is not such a big difference between them. Am I correct? You also say it's a 4inch blower... Unfortunately on internet I found only 3 inch blower. Could you state what's the difference? Is this the diameter or length? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 he connected the new fan in parallel with the old fan. So both run together and both run either slow or fast. 4inch blower is the diameter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badger Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I did the above, with the blower in the same spot, it does help and brings more air through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanT90 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Anyone ever considered swapping the standard landrover matrix for one off a car ? Ideally one thats reliable and efficient. I have a 300TDI and fair enough it starts to warm on first fan setting after about 5 miles, but whenever I get in my wifes Suzuki swift I realise how pitiful the heating in my Landrover actually is. Was wondering if with a bit of modification I could adapt a heater matrix from a stanard production car to work in my 90 ? Ideally an older model so there are plenty of them in scrap yards to work with. Let's face it they all work on same principle, recirculation of water through a matrix and a fan ? Like the bilge fan idea boosts the air movement, but if you have a more efficient matrix too it would be a better combination. When I get some time this year, after all the other jobs I have to do first, I will look at this for next winter and keep you posted. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I guess the question i have with this is whether the bilge blower would be better without the original fan motor so that there is just the bilge blower as a standalone unit? We all bang on about the restriction those Hiclone things create in an air intake. Surely two fans that aren't matched for speed will create a similar effect with the second creating more of a restriction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 The actual heater matrix isnt all that different to what you'd find in a modern car. I'm not really sure what you'd achieve changing it... Theres two things at play that makes it a bit carp. First off, diesel engines dont heat up very quickly, even modern cars are the same. Many modern cars get round this issue by adding some sort of electric heater element into the HVAC system and theres a thread on here about doing just that with the landrover one. Petrol cars heat up much faster, and plenty of folk with V8 defenders will also point out their heaters are great. This is compounded by leaky thermostats. Most stats these days seem to start opening early as they age. I've had it happen on both my current BMW and the Audis i've had before, it seems to be a very common issue. So you end up with a slow to heat up diesel engine, and a thermostat thats letting too much water thru the radiator and the engine simply never heats up properly. You wont notice due to the hopeless factory guage but your engines now running at 70c rather than 90 and as a result, the matrix is doing half the work it should be. The second issue is the design of the landrover air distribution system isnt all that great. Its all metal ducting, which clearly absorbs heat, and the flaps and whatnot are all a bit carp. The ducts are also very large. But you cant really change any of that, without redesigning the whole dashboard, which is what landrover did with the puma. A modern car uses plastic housings with ducting taking the air where it needs to go, rather than the big metal box section the defender has. Furthermore, a modern car has stacks of insulation. Theres inches of foam under the floor and in the doors and headlining etc. The door seals are all perfect and no air leaks in round the frames etc etc. All this adds up. The defender system clearly can work fine despite the design flaws, plenty folk have good working defender heaters to prove that. It just takes some TLC and a bit of effort understanding how it all works and why its not doing what it should be. Things like the sealing between the heater box and the bulkhead, difficult to access and fix, but if that seals knackered all your nice warm airs just blowing away into the engine bay. The extra boost from the bilge blower can help get around the poor fan etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I'll tell you next week Rich. I've got a 4" Attwood blower here to fit in my days off. I'm going to wire it as a seperate fan rather than on all the time with the dash blower. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I'll tell you next week Rich. I've got a 4" Attwood blower here to fit in my days off. I'm going to wire it as a seperate fan rather than on all the time with the dash blower. Mo Be good to know Mo. Was it much to buy? Biggest thing i want is a bit more blow to clear the screen and some ducting to force the air to the side windows. If i put the ducting in now, the screen wouldnt clear well at all. I have an eberspacher for really heating the cab and once thats up to temp, condensation inside is less of an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 £25 on ebay Rich. I thought it was worth a punt. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrovermanuk Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Could you put plastic ducting in the air box in the dash panel and fill the rest with insulation? I'm sure I read that someone had done that,may have even been earlier in this thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandu_222 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 hey guys, I returned to the idea to upgrade the blower fan, but, I noticed that there are 2 different models of 4-inch Attwood fans, 3000 and 4000. here is the link of the second one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Attwood-Turbo-4000-II-4-Inch-Marine-Boat-Bilge-Blower-12-Volt-Water-Resistant-/201482295786?hash=item2ee947d9ea:g:9sEAAOSwp5JWaZfn what do you think about comparison between them? which one deserve to be installed? also, do you think it is a good idea to wire it separately, to have full control on blower speed? this way, I will be able to have 4 different speeds for my heater: 1. factory low speed 2. factory high speed 3. factory low speed + additional fan 4. factory high speed + additional fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I've just bought the same blower just waiting for it to be delivered, then it'll hopefully get fitted quickly. might be worth checking heater unit air flap control cable adjustments as in http://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/33481-feeling-the-cold-in-your-truck/ then the heater will have a much better chance of doing the job, I also fitted on of simonb's Heater resistors which up the speed of the slow setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandu_222 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 as I noticed at this moment: Attwood 3000 has the diameter of 3inch Attwood 4000 has the diameter of 4inch link: http://www.attwoodmarine.com/userfiles/store/product/files/1238/1731.pdf I'd ask Ruuman again to check which one he was fitting. what diameter fit there better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 4inch or 101mm diameter is the one Ruuman used, it does state that in his original post Quote an Attwood 3000 4inch bilge blower, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Wire it seperately Sandu, you can use it when you want then. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodumatau Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 some excellent points here, one thing that I saw in Westerns "Feeling the cold in your truck" post that I didn't see repeated here but I think has relevance, especially if you put a bilge blower in and wish to move more air is what Lars L posted on the 3rd Dec 2008: "But I think that the most important modification was that I opened up that silly little opening in the bulkhead. The opening is just about half the size of the outlet from the heater. The bulkhead opening is now almost as big as the heater duct." I am sure this will also make a big difference. another thing I have seen done is to insulated the outside of the heater matrix box, I am sure that tin can radiates and looses a lot of heat. my heater works quite well, bit less now since I fitted a 72 degree thermostat from Nige, but knew that in advance that it would affect the heater output. my 110 being completely open I use a blanket in winter over the knees and held onto the dash with a few hand clamps to keep the legs and feet toasty warm when I go on outings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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