cacq Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Hi there- my question is basically the following: has Land Rover ever equipped some Defender originally with roll-cages? Or have they always been fitted after factory production? it is an important question for me as a French Def owner: France is changing MOT rules in May and all equipments that have been not been fitted by Land Rover themselves will be deemed illegal... Before spending £3000 in a roll cage, I’d like to make sure these cages can be found in some Land Rover Defender specs ! Thanks for your help !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 There have been a few models over the years that came with a "roll cage" although most/all of them wouldn't meet motorsport requirements. The earliest one I can think of was the NAS, others include the Defender Black, Tomb Raider and I think the 50th Anniversary version had one too. Then there's the military vehicles that had roll over hoops. Technically, I believe you could claim that anything produced by Land Rover Special Vehicles is factory fit so perhaps even camel trophy Defenders could be included in the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) Many things have been fitted by Land Rover, or were with their approval, over the past 7 decades and most were not documented on the logbooks. Many brochures are around showing all kind of weird things fitted on, in and under LR's and cages were one of them - although LR usu. calls them roll over protection.. Obviously the Camels had them, but also the NAS Spec Defenders and the Tomb Raiders had tubing fitted. Not to mention the well known "Golden 110's" that were build by LR to do a around the world trip... Also, loads were fitted to working vehicles where H&S required something and many were fitted through the dealer what makes it getting close to "OE".. However, have you spoken to your CT man about this ? "...all equipments that have been not been fitted by Land Rover themselves will be deemed illegal..." seems a bit steep, even in France. Also, from what year onwards are you talking about as it will be very, very difficult to explain a few things to the various French car owners that after 60 years their vehicle is suddenly "illegal"... Bon Courage ! P.S. ukp. 3,000 for a roll cage.... what are you getting ? P.P.S. There is some new ruling about the vehicle having to be "factory finish" in order to qualify for CT exemption etc.. Edited January 18, 2018 by Arjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Yes Ajan BUT they were not factory fit by Land Rover but fitted by Land Rover Special Vehicles AFTER the factory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Even if it was ever fitted, the problem will be convincing LR France to write you a letter stating it's legal. Don't hold your hopes up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 All roll cages fitted by land rover on the factory assembly line (wolf, NAS and 50 th anniversary, 90SV) were made by Safety Devices, so that would be your first port of call for a roll cage. Many special projects (like the camel trophy and Gold 110s) were actually fitted by Safety Devices, not at Landrover. Daan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 So...... What does the CT (French MOT) man say... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 1 hour ago, mmgemini said: Yes Ajan BUT they were not factory fit by Land Rover but fitted by Land Rover Special Vehicles AFTER the factory Not quite correct LRSV is just a sub part of the LR factory & any vehicle that passes through the SV dept is deemed by LR to be as built in house prior to release from the factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Besides, anything on the vehicle, as delivered through the dealer is, when sold is either LR fitted, or LR approved. I've asked around and I can leave my cages - and the rest - on the vehicles... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 This topic comes up a lot with regard to the Camel trucks, there are a few "build" sheets that have come from Land Rover which seems to have been accepted by various authorities as stating that's how they came out the factory, so they're found acceptable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Yes Ajan BUT they were not factory fit by Land Rover but fitted by Land Rover Special Vehicles AFTER the factory. I was in Wales a few years ago. One member was complaining the he couldn't get insurance on his 110 because of the winch fitted by Land Rover bt LRSV because it wasn't fitted no the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 9 hours ago, mmgemini said: Yes Ajan BUT they were not factory fit by Land Rover but fitted by Land Rover Special Vehicles AFTER the factory. I was in Wales a few years ago. One member was complaining the he couldn't get insurance on his 110 because of the winch fitted by Land Rover bt LRSV because it wasn't fitted no the line. On the strength of that logic, tyre, wiper blade or oil filter replacement would also make the vehicle illegal. It's normally not a matter of it being fitted on the line but by the manufacturer before initial registration that counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Cages are listed in the genuine Factory parts listings for 90 and 110 , so surely that is enough ? cheers Steve b 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb88 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 On 1/18/2018 at 9:23 PM, Daan said: All roll cages fitted by land rover on the factory assembly line (wolf, NAS and 50 th anniversary, 90SV) were made by Safety Devices, so that would be your first port of call for a roll cage. Many special projects (like the camel trophy and Gold 110s) were actually fitted by Safety Devices, not at Landrover. Daan Hello Daan, I’m retrofitting my Def90 Tomb Raider and need to replace some of the tubing of the roll cage due to corrosion. After reading your text I contacted Safety Devices, but their answer was that they did not manufacture the Tomb Raider roll cage. Do you have any idea about the manufacturer who could have supplied LR at that time (2001)? Or even better: where I could source these parts? Thanks a lot. Sébastien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Hi, Protection and performance may have had an involvement in these: http://www.ppcages.com/ Regards, Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Don't forget, the TR, Black, 50th etc don't have 'Roll Bars/cages' they have 'Light bars' 'aesthetic bar work' etc. Camel, Golden and some Utility vehicles actually have 'roll bars' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 On 1/18/2018 at 7:23 PM, mmgemini said: Yes Ajan BUT they were not factory fit by Land Rover but fitted by Land Rover Special Vehicles AFTER the factory Just as a point of reference. Many many optional parts are not fitted by the factory. A great many are "dealer fit" or even importer fit. Such as graphics, mud flaps, roof racks, tow bars and lots of other stuff. Not just Land Rover, this is for all car makers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Erm isn't the communist state of France inside the EU domain!! How can they dictate different laws, so a non French EU car can be driven whilest on foreign EU plates in France, but NOT transferred to French EU registration?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnoK Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 6 hours ago, missingsid said: Erm isn't the communist state of France inside the EU domain!! How can they dictate different laws, so a non French EU car can be driven whilest on foreign EU plates in France, but NOT transferred to French EU registration?? They don't seem to care. A colleague is French but lives in Spain, and he says they are really messed up with motorcycle MOT/CT checks. NO modifications of ANY shape or type are allowed, not even aftermarket EU approved exhausts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 I hate to disappoint you EU lovers, but the EU does not rule everything. Each member state has the right to have national - additional - requirements for all kind of things so within the 27 members there are difference. And requirements for vehicles is one. And driving with foreign plates in your country of residence is more about taxes... Pity "cacq" never replied to my suggestion to talk with his CT man on having a cage.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 23 hours ago, missingsid said: Erm isn't the communist state of France inside the EU domain!! How can they dictate different laws, so a non French EU car can be driven whilest on foreign EU plates in France, but NOT transferred to French EU registration?? I spent 15 years in France, and there is really one lesson to get under your belt early on, ..... it isn't how you interpret things that is important it is how the person (fonctionnaire) you are dealing with interpets them that counts. Often there is only one person or office you can deal with and if something goes wrong you are stuck. There is still a republican (or socialist or communist) attitude within the civil service and they enjoy wielding their power when the opportunity occurs. It is not like a normal 'department' where you can ask to see the manager and negotiate a compromise. Once blocked at any level the next level up is more interested in supporting his staff and ticking a box than he is in providing a 'service' to you. I spent about 5 years on and off trying to register a mobile sawmill as a trailer in Lot et Garonne 47, because every effort I made ended up eventually on the desk of the same guy it always got rejected. I eventually used a commercial address in neighbouring Dordogne 24 and succeeded at the first attempt, ..... I knew a lot more about the system by then and I was lucky the second bloke had a more modern attitude. As far as registering cars go, it is about where you live, and where the car lives, I found the French really flexible about many Brits who drive UK registered vehicles for extended periods even though they were actually living locally. More so than the Irish where you have only 30 days to do the paperwork when you enter the country, after that you have to pay Vehicle Registration Tax of somewhere in the region of 30% of the value of your vehicle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 On 11/1/2020 at 9:12 AM, Arjan said: I hate to disappoint you EU lovers, but the EU does not rule everything. Each member state has the right to have national - additional - requirements for all kind of things so within the 27 members there are difference. And requirements for vehicles is one. And driving with foreign plates in your country of residence is more about taxes... Pity "cacq" never replied to my suggestion to talk with his CT man on having a cage.. Indeed. In Belgium you can always register a car that's road legal in another member state, but once it's registered all bets are off for the next MOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 7 hours ago, elbekko said: Indeed. In Belgium you can always register a car that's road legal in another member state, but once it's registered all bets are off for the next MOT. Nice, so you won't know until it is too late! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 On 10/31/2020 at 10:11 AM, missingsid said: Erm isn't the communist state of France inside the EU domain!! How can they dictate different laws, so a non French EU car can be driven whilest on foreign EU plates in France, but NOT transferred to French EU registration?? In truth I have experienced the flexible side of France, I attended, marshalled and was a passenger in the first Europa Truck Trial and the first night civic dinner then opening drive through the town was fantastic. Also competed in two Jeepers Jamboree's in Sedan where we were the Saturday night entertainment for the locals, muddy field local couples in Black Tie wandering around. The state of the roads was appalling afterwards but they were happy and they are still allowed back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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