Towing Trailers

[Eightpot]

The old police training was to read traffic conditions, junctions and lights in advance, with the aim of not arriving at them carrying excess speed and having to waste energy on braking, but rather anticipate the conditions, keep moving and in the appropriate gear to accelerate away. Also means that when you arrive at the junction you're not swapping gears or braking and are free to react. More to do with keeping the vehicle in a balanced state of control than keeping traffic flowing.  There was a lot of mention in the manuals about preserving clutch/brakes but it's also the best way to follow people going very quickly 🙂

[Bowie69]

All very familiar ^^^

[Happyoldgit]

Very

[Troll Hunter]

My step-father was a Met police car driver and subsequently an RAC Approved driving instructor, a qualification that seems to have disappeared these days.  He taught me exactly as Eightpot describes above.  Read the traffic, no excessive acceleration or braking, and be in the right gear to move off. All the electronic gizmos on vehicles today may help the driver, but they do nothing to help the driver to acquire the skill of driving.  If you need computer controlled parallel parking you shouldn't be in charge of a car.  Sorry, rant over.

Mike

[Snagger]

On 10/2/2021 at 6:46 PM, Happyoldgit said:

On a broader note. I was amazed how my kids were both taught by two different professional, full time, driving instructors the importance of keeping traffic flowing. How they should not come to a dead stop at junctions if they could help it but rather to keep rolling while you check if it is clear to proceed. How it is important to keep your foot on the clutch and vehicle in first gear when near the front at traffic lights and not to make use of engine braking. They both passed their tests within the last five years and were told that these things and others are what an examiner will be looking for during the practical test. Many aspects are so different how I was taught to drive [by a police examiner] around 46 yers ago so much so that I feel postively uncomfortable with how they drive whenever I am a passenger in their vehicles. Both are good, considerate drivers but the desire to keep shuffling on means the risks of actually not seeing something an approaching vehicle or bike are higher now.

It is just another case of dumbing down to the lowest common denominator.  Rather than teach the less able that you can use the engine to slow down, but that it has different effectiveness depending on fuel type and whether it’s a manual or automatic transmission, they just teach stop and go pedals.  I’ve heard tenuous justification about engine braking and the brake lights, but the retardation rate of engine braking doesn’t justify the need for brake lights if other motorists apply the required braking distance.  But engine braking does put you in the correct gear to accelerate instantly should it be required, saves on wear and is far more efficient.

[landroversforever]

Worth a note pointing out that the rule changes finally went through yesterday.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-towing-a-trailer-or-caravan-with-a-car-from-autumn-2021?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_source=30ccf952-95bf-470d-b99b-382387f0e460&utm_content=immediately

So all Post 97 licenses are now the same as the old folk  people who passed their driving tests before then.

[Mo Murphy]

I is old ...

Mo 😬

[landroversforever]

33 minutes ago, Mo Murphy said:

I is old ...

Mo 😬

Can’t see any mention of towing behind a zimmer though Mo? 

[smallfry]

I dont think this has been thought through properly, given how younger drivers drive nowadays. In the lanes around where we live, it seems that people drive way too fast, with seemingly no concept of slowing down, and that something might be round a corner, or emerge from a hidden drive. Also, it seems that so many drivers are not able to manoeuvre their vehicles anything like properly, and are unable and therefore unwilling to reverse. How are they even going to cope with a trailer ?

I think there should be a training course. Still.

[Mo Murphy]

7 hours ago, landroversforever said:

Can’t see any mention of towing behind a zimmer though Mo? 

Not yet ...

[landroversforever]

On 12/17/2021 at 6:05 PM, smallfry said:

I dont think this has been thought through properly, given how younger drivers drive nowadays. In the lanes around where we live, it seems that people drive way too fast, with seemingly no concept of slowing down, and that something might be round a corner, or emerge from a hidden drive. Also, it seems that so many drivers are not able to manoeuvre their vehicles anything like properly, and are unable and therefore unwilling to reverse. How are they even going to cope with a trailer ?

I think there should be a training course. Still.

Come on, that’s a massive generalisation. As a ‘younger’ (only just tiptoed past 30) driver and guessing closer to having passed my test than yourself that’s a vastly unfair comment. I can think of plenty of people my parents (60ish) age and older who do everything you’ve described above and the ability (or lack of!) trailer towing hasn’t changed for them! Add to that plenty of ‘you’ older folks who I’m sure drove like a knob when you were younger - although again not all of ‘you’. 

The only thing that has changed across all of it is IMO, a differing level of mechanical knowledge. I’m still old enough to have learned to drive with no ABS but driving aids of all sorts are everywhere now. But that doesn’t change who does the careless/unskilled driving. 

[miketomcat]

I genuinely believe the change in towing laws will make absolutely no difference to the number or type of accidents related to trailers. This because a half wit with a small trailer is just as likely to crash as the same half wit with a big trailer. 

Mike

[Bowie69]

Agreed @miketomcat .

Never met anyone unduly confident about towing having never done it before.

[Ed Poore]

There was a significant number of a certain kind of towing folk who upgraded or bought new towed "trailers" in anticipation of the law changing then had to hold off. This showed to me that there were a fair number of people who were taking opportunity of the "free pass" to upgrade to bigger caravans (oops should have said trailers).

To me they are some of the worst for towing being reasonably light but very broad sided.

I'm sure most will be fine but as always more people towing will result in more accidents.

[cackshifter]

4 hours ago, landroversforever said:

Add to that plenty of ‘you’ older folks who I’m sure drove like a knob when you were younger

How on earth did you know?

[Anderzander]

2 hours ago, miketomcat said:

I genuinely believe the change in towing laws will make absolutely no difference to the number or type of accidents related to trailers. This because a half wit with a small trailer is just as likely to crash as the same half wit with a big trailer. 

Mike

HEY !!!!! I resemble that comment ! 

[Chicken Drumstick]

On 12/17/2021 at 6:05 PM, smallfry said:

I dont think this has been thought through properly, given how younger drivers drive nowadays. In the lanes around where we live, it seems that people drive way too fast, with seemingly no concept of slowing down, and that something might be round a corner, or emerge from a hidden drive. Also, it seems that so many drivers are not able to manoeuvre their vehicles anything like properly, and are unable and therefore unwilling to reverse. How are they even going to cope with a trailer ?

I think there should be a training course. Still.

You should go back and re-read the earlier part of the thread.

Basically, people could tow legally before the law change. Almost everyone could tow almost any single axled caravan assuming you used a relatively rubbish tow car such as a Ford Focus. What the law prevented previously was people being able to use 'good' tow vehicles to tow such things. This is because is was based on combined gross train weight. Not on the outright weight of the trailer.

The total weight people can tow now has changed I admit. But with the correct setup you could easily tow 1400kg under the previous system without needing to take the trailer test and probably up to around 2000kg with a very poor tow vehicle such as a 1980s Sierra. But you need to remember the trailer test did NOT cover the difference between towing 2 tonne and 1.5t more. Ironically the recommended 'test trailer' was only 1 tonne, which you could tow legally with loads of vehicles without needing the test.

So while you might have a valid point, it doesn't relate to the change in the towing laws. 

[landroversforever]

1 hour ago, Ed Poore said:

To me they are some of the worst for towing being reasonably light but very broad sided.

That is I’m sure a huge part of it, but cupboard layouts set up for living also don’t lend themselves to loading for the road  

[Daan]

4 hours ago, landroversforever said:

Come on, that’s a massive generalisation. As a ‘younger’ (only just tiptoed past 30) driver and guessing closer to having passed my test than yourself that’s a vastly unfair comment. I can think of plenty of people my parents (60ish) age and older who do everything you’ve described above and the ability (or lack of!) trailer towing hasn’t changed for them! Add to that plenty of ‘you’ older folks who I’m sure drove like a knob when you were younger - although again not all of ‘you’. 

The only thing that has changed across all of it is IMO, a differing level of mechanical knowledge. I’m still old enough to have learned to drive with no ABS but driving aids of all sorts are everywhere now. But that doesn’t change who does the careless/unskilled driving. 

Indeed a generalisation. People who are older got a towing license through grandfather rights, and why should younger people have to do the test. What would be fair (and safe) is that the grandfather rights are removed for older people, and they would have to do their trailer test too, just like younger people.

Waiting for a lot of grumbling of older drivers.

[Mo Murphy]

I don't want to tow anything, thanks !

I usually see caravans on their side on the M4 with their contents strewn across 3 lanes. That makes it an attractive proposition !

And I do know older drivers who still drive like knobs! Age hasn't improved them. My dad used to terrify my mum, my missus at the time she was prepared to take offered lifts from him and he terrifies me when I get in the car with him now. At least he's consistent 🤣

Mo

[Ed Poore]

Just now, Mo Murphy said:

usually see caravans on their side on the M4 with their contents strewn across 3 lanes. That makes it an attractive proposition !

They're only the ones that don't make it this far west. The ones that do, well, I've seen smaller matchsticks.

[miketomcat]

I've towed just about everything you can from dump trailers, caravans to boat trailers/ maffi cradles, from 50kg to 6ton. Dump trailers are hidious to reverse, caravans if loaded badly are unstable, boat trailers react so slowly they can catch you out cutting corners and the maffi is so heavy it can drag you back down the slightest slope. I've never had any training apart from what I saw and my dad taught me. I've been in tow vehicle's where things have gone wrong both as driver and passenger. I guess my point is what makes me any different to someone getting their license today or to someone that has taken the trailer test. I've read supposedly professional advice that would be dangerous if applied to a different trailer. As per the driving test you learn more in the first year of driving than whilst learning with an instructor. Some people can tow without training, some with training and some people it doesn't matter what you tell/train them they will still be dangerous. End of incoherent rambling. 

Mike