Price of Petrol (and Diesel)

[smallfry]

Had to go out to get Petrol for the Chainsaw this morning.

Couldnt find any of the three green petrol "cans" I know I have, so took a translucent 5 litre container instead.

Put a Fivers worth (thats five uk £ for our overseas viewers) and its only just over half full 😲

Brings it home to you just how expensive its getting. When you fill a vehicle you just pay up and dont give it much attention.

[elbekko]

Even the LPG is >€0.8/litre at the moment. It's ridiculous.

[reb78]

Its shot up 10p+ a litre since the 'fuel crisis'. Its just an industry cashing in as far as I can tell. 

[Simon_CSK]

At the lowest point in the pandemic it was £1.01 a litre locally and it is now £1.499.

That is a huge difference in a year and a half but the Government added tax in 2020 but deferred it for 12 months so there was a sneaky increase that was not reported at the time.

[missingsid]

Yep, filled up yesterday £58 it's normally £45!

[markyboy]

52 minutes ago, Simon_CSK said:

At the lowest point in the pandemic it was £1.01 a litre locally and it is now £1.499.

That is a huge difference in a year and a half but the Government added tax in 2020 but deferred it for 12 months so there was a sneaky increase that was not reported at the time.

Didn't the Chancellor maintain the status quo on fuel duty in his recent budget? I thought I'd heard that he had, but I could easily be wrong.

ETA: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/98845/autumn-budget-2021-fuel-duty-frozen

Edited November 11, 2021 by markyboy
Additional info.

[FridgeFreezer]

A reasonable tracker on the RAC site here:

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/fuel-watch/

Honestly I can only see it going one way these days, as much as we may not like it.

[Simon_CSK]

On 11/11/2021 at 9:44 AM, markyboy said:

Didn't the Chancellor maintain the status quo on fuel duty in his recent budget? I thought I'd heard that he had, but I could easily be wrong.

ETA: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/98845/autumn-budget-2021-fuel-duty-frozen

yes he did but he raised it last year but didn't impliment ir until this year so was hidden.

[Escape]

We went from a low of just over €1/L in April 2020 to €1.7/l now, with another €0.50 increase expected over the next year. Doesn't bode well, especially considering my preference for V8s. Maybe things will settle down again once there are enough EVs on the road and they can focus on bleeding those owners dry instead. 

[monkie]

I hope I'm wrong but I can't see it coming down again by any significant amount. Its an easy way for them to rake in a lot of money and they have got to start finding funds for the financial costs of the measures that are/have been put in place for  Covid and the B word for us in the UK.

[steve b]

1971 petrol 34p per gallon

1980 petrol £1.27 per gallon 

The '70's were a time of energy crises and cartel pricing of crude oil and refined products that brought social hardship and rocketing inflation . 

 

Of course things now are very different .....?

Steve

[Daan]

3 hours ago, Escape said:

Maybe things will settle down again once there are enough EVs on the road and they can focus on bleeding those owners dry instead. 

I think the price of electricity will increase exponentially when the EV becomes more mainstream.

No different from the price of fuel, and indeed gas; supply and demand drive the price. The government can steer it a bit with taxes, but they cannot change market forces.

[monkie]

I wouldn't mind much paying more for electricity (I think in a wealthy nation it is the decent thing to do) provided that the cost is going towards funding a much better infrastructure and a long term provision for generating most of our power from nuclear including newer nuclear technologies rather becoming reliant on gas, wind and solar. 

[Nonimouse]

1 hour ago, monkie said:

I wouldn't mind much paying more for electricity (I think in a wealthy nation it is the decent thing to do) provided that the cost is going towards funding a much better infrastructure and a long term provision for generating most of our power from nuclear including newer nuclear technologies rather becoming reliant on gas, wind and solar. 

But nuclear is th emost expensive way to generate electricity. I'd pay more to generate enegry sustainably - more wind, wave, tide, hydro, AD. 

[mad_pete]

You can go to a provider that only gets stuff from renewables.  
 

stuff like this 

 

https://rippleenergy.com

 

I’m with Octopus I think.

[monkie]

10 minutes ago, Nonimouse said:

But nuclear is th emost expensive way to generate electricity. I'd pay more to generate enegry sustainably - more wind, wave, tide, hydro, AD. 

Exactly, that's why I'm willing to pay more for something that is clean, reliable but most of all energy dense and can totally replace burning natural gas rather than supliment it. Also exportable technology to countries like India where they need lots of energy dense power supply for the manufacturing we depend upon. There are many different nuclear technologies out there. I hope we start to put more money that way rather than on solar, wind, wave, tide, hydro...

[missingsid]

1 hour ago, mad_pete said:

You can go to a provider that only gets stuff from renewables.  
 

stuff like this 

 

https://rippleenergy.com

 

I’m with Octopus I think.

How's that work? It all comes from the same national grid, they can't pick out the eco electrons.

[Peaklander]

1 hour ago, missingsid said:

they can't pick out the eco electrons

No but the renewables can be sold 'separately', limited by what they actually generate and your provider can put their name on some of it. There must be controls on the aggregated amount that they are saying they sell. Mustn't there??

[smallfry]

1 hour ago, missingsid said:

How's that work? It all comes from the same national grid, they can't pick out the eco electrons.

Presume they only BUY their energy from renewable sources, but as you rightly say, its all just pumped into the National grid.

Its just a sham. Or a scam if you like, to attract customers to buy something they are NOT getting....... Sorry, no electricity for you ATM because it not windy, and its overcast or dark.

Despite its dangers and possible drawbacks, IMO nuclear is really the only answer. I hate the bight on the land/seascape that windmills and solar farms cause, and the cost per unit, plus maintenance and replacement (which no one mentions) is collossal, so I cannot see that it is any less expensive than nuclear, which is reliable and gives constant output

[Peaklander]

6 minutes ago, smallfry said:

IMO nuclear is really the only answer

yes and if the Fusion People would only get it sorted, it would be extremely helpful. However it's so difficult...

[Daan]

11 minutes ago, smallfry said:

Presume they only BUY their energy from renewable sources, but as you rightly say, its all just pumped into the National grid.

Its just a sham. Or a scam if you like, to attract customers to buy something they are NOT getting....... Sorry, no electricity for you ATM because it not windy, and its overcast or dark.

Despite its dangers and possible drawbacks, IMO nuclear is really the only answer. I hate the bight on the land/seascape that windmills and solar farms cause, and the cost per unit, plus maintenance and replacement (which no one mentions) is collossal, so I cannot see that it is any less expensive than nuclear, which is reliable and gives constant output

Nuclear would be ideal, if only we did not have to deal with nuclear waste...

[monkie]

31 minutes ago, Daan said:

Nuclear would be ideal, if only we did not have to deal with nuclear waste...

That is an issue that has been massively exaggerated by anti nuclear campaigners in the past. Its an ideal form of waste because it is contained and not released into the atmosphere unlike when we burn stuff. 

[monkie]

36 minutes ago, Peaklander said:

yes and if the Fusion People would only get it sorted, it would be extremely helpful. However it's so difficult...

Yes fusion is an exciting prospect but it isn't the only nuclear technology that is promising. There are liquid fuel reactors that work using fuel in the liquid phase (a molten salt), there are also technologies that use different fuel cycles so don't have use Uranium or Plutonium. 

An idea I really like the sound of is a combination of the 2, LFTR (liquid fluoride thorium reactors). There are some technical challenges such as reactors that can handle hot molten flouirde salts, but the potential benefits are massive for passively safe power that utilises much more of the fuel that current solid state reactors. 

[reb78]

3 hours ago, Nonimouse said:

But nuclear is th emost expensive way to generate electricity. I'd pay more to generate enegry sustainably - more wind, wave, tide, hydro, AD. 

Trouble is, I think if anyone does the sums, sustainable sources are not as green or as sustainable as they are made out to be. They might be, but would like to see some honest calculations (a bit like the EV vs ICE argument the former has a shorter lifespan and is only clean at the point of use rather than zero emissions people seem to think). I saw a picture the other day of the fibreglass sails of wind turbines being buried when they reach the end of their ten year lifespan - I guess its inert but we are still just creating waste for someone else to deal with one day. How do we deal with burying them when they become the main/only source of energy and we cant dig holes deep enough? Could chuck em in the sea I suppose or burn them to generate electricity...

[reb78]

54 minutes ago, smallfry said:

Presume they only BUY their energy from renewable sources, but as you rightly say, its all just pumped into the National grid.

Its just a sham. Or a scam if you like, to attract customers to buy something they are NOT getting....... Sorry, no electricity for you ATM because it not windy, and its overcast or dark.

Despite its dangers and possible drawbacks, IMO nuclear is really the only answer. I hate the bight on the land/seascape that windmills and solar farms cause, and the cost per unit, plus maintenance and replacement (which no one mentions) is collossal, so I cannot see that it is any less expensive than nuclear, which is reliable and gives constant output

I never get the buy your green energy from us argument either. I would wager that 'green' electric is sold in greater quantities than it is produced and so I think scam is right. When you see the big companies like EON advertising green only (sure I have seen that) it makes you think that there cant be enough green energy out there for all of their users. Who is getting the dirty stuff?!