ThreePointFive Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 On 2/26/2024 at 1:40 PM, FridgeFreezer said: "What I Would Fix On The New Land Rover Defender, A Car I Helped Design" https://www.theautopian.com/i-fix-something-i-dont-like-on-the-new-land-rover-defender-a-car-i-worked-on/ Brilliant stuff, loved the fun poking at the forum experts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Well I thought that was the best written piece of journalism I've read in quite a while. Grammar and spelling both passed (exceedingly rare these days) while being a moderately amusing read. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Another one here that actually found it an enjoyable read. Lots of well made points and it read well unlike a lot of tripe in the press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 What stood out for me was that's he's never actually driven the new Defender, after working on the vehicle and "knowing it for eight years" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 As with most if not all cars these days, it's all about the imagine and not about driving... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Not sure that would be unusual for the design department on a car that's under development to not be doing much driving - it's not their job and for the most part while they're doing their thing there would not be anything for them to drive other than prototype mules based on last-gen Discos anyway? Every chance he's been moved on to another project or even changed jobs before the actual cars hit production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 In my experience, apart from the heavily disguised mules, there wouldn't have been many cars on the road until the press cars were released. Very few employees would have access to any. Then once they are released to sales there would be few, if any, available 'early', for employees through any company schemes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 l guess you're right. I have always been passionate about cars and if l was working on the design l would want to drive the vehicle as soon as it was available. But l guess in real life that's not how it works. l know someone who worked on the software for the new Defender and he's never driven one either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naks Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 https://media.landrover.com/news/2024/03/defender-octa-new-high-performance-hero "... Defender OCTA will feature V8 Twin Turbo mild-hybrid petrol power and class-leading 6D Dynamics air suspension, enabling extreme performance across all terrains. Available for the first time on Defender, 6D Dynamics will give Defender OCTA an unparalleled breadth of capability, comfort and composure, whether on-road or off-road. The hydraulic interlinked 6D Dynamics technology features an innovative pitch and roll control system that will enable Defender OCTA to maintain a near-level stance during acceleration, braking and cornering on-road, while also maximising independent wheel travel and articulation across the most demanding off-road terrain. Reflecting the vehicle’s luxury credentials, a diamond’s octahedron shape inspires the new OCTA name – diamond being the hardest naturally occurring substance on Earth, renowned for its rarity. A new encircled diamond graphic symbolizes the flagship Defender model. It features on a number of interior and exterior components, including as a gloss black diamond within a machined and sandblasted titanium disc on each Signature Graphic panel. Titanium has also been chosen for its robustness and resilience to the elements in its natural state. Defender OCTA is undergoing the most exhaustive development regime in Defender history, from the snow and ice of Sweden to Dubai desert, Nürburgring tarmac and Moab rock crawls.... " 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 An interesting dig around in the suspension, for those of us who haven't been underneath one: https://www.autoblog.com/2021/07/27/land-rover-defender-110-suspension-deep-dive/?guccounter=1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Good write up that Fridge, thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Splined floating brake discs seem to be asking for trouble on an off road vehicle. The suspension is clearly very well thought out and efficient in volume and mass, but seems to be biased to road use. That seems fair enough given the use of the overwhelming majority that these will see, but there is a lot to be said for the rugged and simple nature of the original Defender (RRC) suspension in an off road or working vehicle. Let’s be honest - a late RRC was not remotely an uncomfortable place to be, even on coils, as long as it had the ARBs fitted. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Even more comfortable without them, depending on what roads you were on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 10 hours ago, deep said: Even more comfortable without them, depending on what roads you were on. That much is true. I did drive a friend’s mid-80s RR a handful of times and it rolled heavily on swift corners, but his and my later versions were far better in corners. But a potholed road or rough track would be better without the ARBs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 On 3/30/2024 at 12:40 PM, Snagger said: Splined floating brake discs seem to be asking for trouble on an off road vehicle. The suspension is clearly very well thought out and efficient in volume and mass, but seems to be biased to road use. That seems fair enough given the use of the overwhelming majority that these will see, but there is a lot to be said for the rugged and simple nature of the original Defender (RRC) suspension in an off road or working vehicle. Let’s be honest - a late RRC was not remotely an uncomfortable place to be, even on coils, as long as it had the ARBs fitted. I'm not sure the discs are actually floating. The rear caliper seems to be mounted on 2 sliding pins, just like most (all?) Land Rovers since the P38. And the fixed 4-pot calipers at the front wouldn't need a floating disc either. Maybe the author made an assumption because of the visible splines, but didn't actually check? I agree it would be a bad idea of road. I've had the least trouble with fixed calipers, like on an old Defender or RRC. The sliding pins on later ones seem more prone to sticking when used off road. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 They’re not floating discs, they just have a finned section on the bell. The calipers are all floating though as is standard practice these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Why is that? Cost? I personally hate the bloody things. Only vehicle I have that has them is the rear of the RR, never had an issue with the 110s calipers being double sided. Fronts on the RR never had an issue even with 8(?) pistons in them. Rear of the RR or my Mums Toyota Avensis, sisters old Auris, Dad's Shogun they all suffered from stuck sliders. Bearing in mind only one of those gets used off-road regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 21 hours ago, Retroanaconda said: They’re not floating discs, they just have a finned section on the bell. The calipers are all floating though as is standard practice these days. The front calipers seem fixed, not floating. At least on the 110 in the article. In theory floating calipers might be easier/ lighter, cheaper, but I agree they're usually more prone to sticking. Typically easy enough to free and clean up though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 I think it was the first time I went to replace the rear discs on the RR whether the process was to remove the sliding portion thus meaning you didn't have to remove the caliper. After pulling, pushing, smashing, heating, lubricating and a lot of swearing they still wouldn't budge. I ideally didn't want to replace them as that would involve (I thought) a pain in the backside process with the diagnostics to bleed them all down due to the traction control and ABS. Planing for the worst I got a new pair of calipers but thought I'd try drilling out the stuck pins first to save bleeding. Put a grinder through the pins to split the caliper, bloody pin fell out after that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 48 minutes ago, Escape said: The front calipers seem fixed, not floating. At least on the 110 in the article. In theory floating calipers might be easier/ lighter, cheaper, but I agree they're usually more prone to sticking. Typically easy enough to free and clean up though. They are floating on mine. Must be a different setup on the larger brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 48 minutes ago, Ed Poore said: Why is that? Cost? I personally hate the bloody things. Only vehicle I have that has them is the rear of the RR, never had an issue with the 110s calipers being double sided. Fronts on the RR never had an issue even with 8(?) pistons in them. Rear of the RR or my Mums Toyota Avensis, sisters old Auris, Dad's Shogun they all suffered from stuck sliders. Bearing in mind only one of those gets used off-road regularly. IMO It's got to be cost.... My JCW daily driver's got 4 pot Brembos on the front.... and sliding calipers on the rear. Drop down to the Cooper S and it's sliding calipers all round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 I still think it's cost but you won't get the same braking force from a "single" piston as two. Hence why the Brembos on the 4.4TDV8 cover 1/3rd of the brake disc and are why you can't fit smaller than 20" wheels on them. Isn't the JCW a more "powerful" version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 11 minutes ago, Ed Poore said: I still think it's cost but you won't get the same braking force from a "single" piston as two. Hence why the Brembos on the 4.4TDV8 cover 1/3rd of the brake disc and are why you can't fit smaller than 20" wheels on them. Isn't the JCW a more "powerful" version? I'm agreeing Ed . and yes, the JCW is the top model power wise. 230bhp go-kart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 I know you were agreeing . I guess changing discs is a bit easier as well as you don't need to remove the caliper (well the bit with the hoses attached) so servicing costs might be a bit lower / lower risk too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 @Retroanaconda I figured you knew what you were talking about, so it must be different setups for different versions/engines. As is often the case. The choice for sliding calipers must be cost indeed. In theory, you can get the same clamping force as long as you have sufficient room so the single pistons can have double the surface. Which clearly becomes a problem with the big brakes needed for heavy, powerful vehicles like a RR TDV8. As for service, you still need to remove the bit with the hoses attached to get to the disc, it's just a bit easier. But then you also have to remove the bracket, so 2 more bolts to undo/ refit. The only advantage being the parts are lighter so easier to handle and position. The main reason discs are so much easier to replace on later Landies (and most cars) is because they're bolted to the outside of the hub instead of the inside, so you don't have to undo the wheel bearings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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