Thoughts and musings on the new defender

[Happyoldgit]

^^I'm not sure he is stating anything new... but takes a very long while to do it.

[Anderzander]

I think that’s why I stopped watching his videos 

[ThreePointFive]

6 hours ago, Happyoldgit said:

^^I'm not sure he is stating anything new... but takes a very long while to do it.

Stating the obvious as if you're the only person it's occured to is something of a Land Rover/Off Road journalist YouTuber trademark. Most of them are pure wind without valid ideas.

[Lightning]

Not much love for the new Defender on this forum.

l think it's best in base specification with steel wheels and no bling. Also its colour dependent, some colours look good and others not so great.

Having also driven the Grenadier that's definitely going to appeal more to old Defender owners.

l was all set to replace my new Defender with one. l had a buyer for my Defender and a Grenadier specification sorted. Sadly l didn't actually place an order and suddenly the Grenadier price went up £16,000 so putting it out of reach.

The other issue with me as a business owner is, the Grenadier is not classed as Commercial by HMRC (although it is with DVLA) so l couldn't claim back the tax. 

l can claim back £14,000 tax on the Defender and that's in addition to VAT. (which l sadly can't get back as l am not VAT registered)

And BIK is only £700 per year. Which is why the Defender Commercial still has a 12-18 month waiting list.

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Lightning

[jeremy996]

The ND should not qualify as a commercial for the HMRC on the same basis as the Grenadier, but there is a negotiated concession for the "Commercial" ND. (it is too heavy and has too small a payload). There is nothing like a bit of political arm-twisting, notwithstanding the New Defender is not built in the UK.

If Ineos Automotive get their act together, the 2 seater Grenadier Commercial should be classified the same way as the LR 110 Commercial, (but don't hold your breath).

As for the love, it is just too new and warrantied so far. Getting technical data out of JLR is worse than pulling teeth and like the Grenadier, we don't know what they will be like to maintain 5 years out of warranty.

Edited September 25, 2023 by jeremy996
Asides on "the love".

[Lightning]

l doubt that any vehicle will be loved as much as the old Defender, new vehicles are too "replaceable" and likely to be scrapped after twenty years.

It does concern me how the ownership will be once out of warranty, but there's plenty of old Range Rovers and Discovery's still rolling so maybe it will be okay.

This will be my first and last high end new vehicle. After this it's back to an old Defender probably a late TDCi.

Although the TDCi engine isn't perfect, it can fail irredeemably unlike the TD5. But l don't think l could go back to a TD5 as a daily driver unless l am doing less mileage.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Lightning

[Naks]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CzCkzPIy99a/

"Beefier new suspension system, that seems to be hydraulic... we suspect to help increase articulation, remove antiroll bars & reduce high speed body roll etc. 👊🏾

Also shown, high clearance rear quad exhausts, rear orange recovery hoops, possible front grill lights, 33s higher ride hight, roof load. 🔥

Release is eminent and 600hp+"

 

[Bowie69]

600bhp is simply pathetic. 

[Naks]

https://www.defender2.net/forum/post1013324.html#1013324

Quote

Was at Eastnor Castle recently. The instructor mentioned that they had seen quite a few SVX prototypes there, they work hand in hand with the engineering team developing the car. Apparently it employs lots of clever new mechanical and electronic innovations that are different to the regular car, resulting in even more extreme off-road capability. Some of these improvements may flow down to regular models over time.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

3 hours ago, Naks said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CzCkzPIy99a/

"Beefier new suspension system, that seems to be hydraulic... we suspect to help increase articulation, remove antiroll bars & reduce high speed body roll etc. 👊🏾

Also shown, high clearance rear quad exhausts, rear orange recovery hoops, possible front grill lights, 33s higher ride hight, roof load. 🔥

Release is eminent and 600hp+"

 

Not meaning to be flippant. This is of course what the world and brand needs. A likely £150,000 off road focused model that nobody will use off road due to the cost 🙄 Talk about about a brand loosing its way.  

[Bowie69]

4 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

600bhp is simply pathetic. 

Quoting myself here to clarify -why anyone on earth should need 600BHP or 700BHP as in some of the luxury SUVs in the states have is completely and utterly beyond me.

I suppose it may make some people feel better about themselves, but honestly, what a horrendous waste of resources, you could build 5 full size budget family vehicles for the same.

[L19MUD]

10 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

Quoting myself here to clarify -why anyone on earth should need 600BHP or 700BHP as in some of the luxury SUVs in the states have is completely and utterly beyond me.

I suppose it may make some people feel better about themselves, but honestly, what a horrendous waste of resources, you could build 5 full size budget family vehicles for the same.

I agree to some extent (but you could argue the same about supercars) however have you seen how awesome the Raptor R and Ram TRX are? Useless here granted but in the states there is certainly scope to use them to their full potential

 

 

 

 

[Bowie69]

Just now, L19MUD said:

I agree to some extent (but you could argue the same about supercars) however have you seen how awesome the Raptor R and Ram TRX are? Useless here granted but in the states there is certainly scope to use them to their full potential

 

 

 

 

They are impressive vehicles, but they are < 80K vs nearly twice that projected for the SVX defender

[ThreePointFive]

If there's no demand for it, the market will show that. 

I think it's good LR are making ridiculous things for people with ridiculous money, they'll only waste it on Mars rockets, buying entire social media platforms or NFTs otherwise.

[Bowie69]

Be nice if the money made it into more philanthropic ventures rather than being hosed on this sort of thing. 

[FridgeFreezer]

28 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

Be nice if the money made it into more philanthropic ventures rather than being hosed on this sort of thing. 

At least it's keeping a little bit of British manufacturing alive, which is more than a lot of the other nonsense does.

Or would we rather everyone stopped buying Jaguars, Land Rovers and Rolls Royces?

[landroversforever]

9 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

At least it's keeping a little bit of British manufacturing alive, which is more than a lot of the other nonsense does.

Or would we rather everyone stopped buying Jaguars, Land Rovers and Rolls Royces?

As in the defenders built in Eastern Europe? 

[Peaklander]

That's the build but everything else, everything, is done here, at Gaydon.

[landroversforever]

The engineering then and possibly engines? But I doubt any of the rest of it is UK manufactured.

[Lightning]

There will always be a market for extreme versions of vehicles with huge wheels and three times the power of the normal version.

l predict that this new model will soon have an 18 month waiting list, Land Rover will build what people will buy, and they'll make more money on these than the regular versions.

[Peaklander]

11 hours ago, landroversforever said:

The engineering then and possibly engines? But I doubt any of the rest of it is UK manufactured.

I walked around Gaydon long before the new Defender was released. There they do all the design work. So there were clay models, 'real' design models in the flesh, pre-production built models. They have R&D, designers, engineers, technicians, apprentices in all disciplines, procurement, parts quality, experts in this and that, etc etc all over there. They are also diving big into battery manufacture here too. It's a huge employer and covers the entire vehicle. Yes Defender manufacturing is in another country which is a shame but there's a lot to be proud of in the UK. Not many other car manufacturers here do all that 'stuff' in the UK.

[deep]

There is always room for improvement in a vehicle design.  In the weird world of trying to build something brilliant off road and amazing on road, manufacturers are always chasing new solutions.  It's all very expensive and not unusual to see newer technology start in an expensive version, then trickle down to slightly cheaper versions.  There is no actual cheap Land Rover any more, of course.

Of course it's all highly irresponsible.  All that waste and indulgence!  It's how society works these days, as those who have the means and desire to indulge heavily also have the money/power to influence everything from manufacture to politics.  Then the toys are seen by the less well-healed, who develop some sort of lust, which ends up fuelling the process.  I really wish you could buy a basic new car and expect to get 30 years use out of it, like you could about 35 years ago...

[steve b]

11 minutes ago, deep said:

  I really wish you could buy a basic new car and expect to get 30 years use out of it, like you could about 70 to 80 years ago...

Fixed that for you 

As for JLR building expensive specials , wouldn't you ? They are there to make money. 

Hyper-consumerism is here to stay......

Steve

[Bowie69]

4 hours ago, steve b said:

Hyper-consumerism is here to stay......

Not if Putin, Xi, North Korea and Iran get their way.

[Snagger]

On 11/1/2023 at 2:02 AM, Peaklander said:

That's the build but everything else, everything, is done here, at Gaydon.

Except the parts manufacture, all in China and India.  So, the design and marketing and now just some of the assembly is British.  Even the profits disappear overseas given that they are Indian owned.