Thoughts and Musings on the Ineos Grenadier

[Snagger]

I’m a little surprised.  The XC90 won awards for its internal storage, which frankly isn’t anything special and has on,y a few extra pockets like on the front of each seat base.  For a utility vehicle to be lacking in pockets and lockers is a bit perplexing.

[jeremy996]

I've done well over 2000 miles now and the average consumption is just over 24 mpg, so still not great but better than officially declared. 

My wife is complaining about the glove box being only big enough for gloves with the owners manual in it. The central cubby usually has my iPhone, the iphone to USB-a cable and a packet of wine gums. My wife's door bin is full of stately home maps and mine contains a bottle of water. My wife's bottle of water is in the cup holder.

The loadbay has a ex-local authority recycling box full of recovery gear and some basic tools, together with a hi-viz motorway coat and my tea-making gear, (petrol stove, kettle, teabags, 1.5l of water in aluminium flasks and small sundries), all held in place by bungee cords.

The Grenadier is now as cluttered as my LR110 ever was. The fundamental change, LR to Grenadier, is the provision of cup holders that work, no leaks in rain storms and the ability to converse with one's passenger at motorway speed, without yelling. 

[Chicken Drumstick]

On 5/28/2023 at 8:42 AM, Happyoldgit said:

Rear seats that don’t fold flat to increase rear load space and the dire fuel consumption are things that really do need addressing.

Are they really issues?

It's not as if you could fold the middle row seats flat in a traditional Defender 110. And logically the only way to achieve it in the Grenadier would be to raise the boot floor, which isn't all that desirable either. Lowering the seats would probably make for very poor ergonomics.

 

MPG wise, they didn't say how many miles they had done, but clearly they did put their foot down a bit and said it was all short town work. A Td5 Disco 2 or p38 diesel Range Rover won't be doing any better with an automatic, but they would be 100 Horse Power down. The new Defender 240 Edition One 110 was only doing 23'ish mpg when I had one on demo.

[landroversforever]

Harry Metcalfe has finally had one in. One video for the Garage channel and one for the Farm channel:

 

 

[Happyoldgit]

2 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Are they really issues?

It's not as if you could fold the middle row seats flat in a traditional Defender 110. And logically the only way to achieve it in the Grenadier would be to raise the boot floor, which isn't all that desirable either. Lowering the seats would probably make for very poor ergonomics.

 

MPG wise, they didn't say how many miles they had done, but clearly they did put their foot down a bit and said it was all short town work. A Td5 Disco 2 or p38 diesel Range Rover won't be doing any better with an automatic, but they would be 100 Horse Power down. The new Defender 240 Edition One 110 was only doing 23'ish mpg when I had one on demo.

The ability to increase rear loadspace by being able to fold rear seats is sometimes handy. I'm pretty sure that in at least my last few 110's the middle row seat backs unlocked and hinged forward then maybe the whole lot tipped up and folded forward vastly increasing the rear loadspace which was often useful for loading up with stuff like animal feedstuff or longer items. Having that ability in a unitary cabin utility vehicle IS useful.

A Td5 Disco 2 or diesel P38 RR auto are from a different era. 
 

[Anderzander]

1 hour ago, landroversforever said:

Harry Metcalfe has finally had one in. One video for the Garage channel and one for the Farm channel:

 

 

Some comments on those here :

 

 

[Retroanaconda]

Book MPG figures here for reference:

It does seem a bit odd that the rear seats don’t fold flat like most vehicles. I use that function in my 110 all the time and it turns it into a van very quickly.

[elbekko]

I have the same issue in my GLE, turns out the back seat does fold flat if you take out the bottom cushion of the rear seat. Maybe something similar can be done in the Grenadier?

It's a faff though...

[ThreePointFive]

2 hours ago, elbekko said:

I have the same issue in my GLE, turns out the back seat does fold flat if you take out the bottom cushion of the rear seat. Maybe something similar can be done in the Grenadier?

It's a faff though...

I thought that when Harry lifted them to look at the batteries but I think the seat backs are too long to fit in the void created. I'm sure Jeremy can confirm.

I find it a bit off that Harry gets two bites at it with two reviews that say largely the same things. It's the same themes that came up in Jonny Smith's review, but said twice more.

[jeremy996]

The rear seats do fold down, but they are not 'flat' and there is a bit of a step from the loadbay to the top of the folded cushion. It's no worse than some of the less well designed estate cars of the '70s and '80s, but compared to the Austin Maxi and the old Defender "take a spanner and remove the seats", it does not create as much space.

It is not optimal, but understandable when you remember that there can be two large batteries, the split charge module and the fuse and relay bank under the Grenadier's seats. For the USA spec Grenadiers, if you don't have a second battery, you can have "Premium" audio, with a better amplifier and a bass bin, (in the void where the second battery would be). 

[deep]

3 hours ago, elbekko said:

I have the same issue in my GLE, turns out the back seat does fold flat if you take out the bottom cushion of the rear seat. Maybe something similar can be done in the Grenadier?

It's a faff though...

Exactly the same in my Freelander 2.  Back seat lowers came out the day I bought it and have been in storage since, leaving a nice, flat floor right through the back (albeit a lot higher than in my friend's FL1).  Lots of cars do that, most allowing the lowers to tip so the backrest fills the same space.  I think the problem here is that they went to a lot of trouble to maximise the space behind the seats, so you start with a very low rear floor, impossibly low to continue forwards without the simplest of rear seats to hide.  I do wonder, now, what happens with the two seat versions?  Are the batteries re-located?  It's the option I would have chosen (if I hadn't decided to buy a big tractor and a new kitchen instead, ho hum...) and I would have been peeved to find a very awkward floor.

[Chicken Drumstick]

 

[L19MUD]

Visited the Suffolk show this week and had another good look at a couple, last year the interiors were not finished so we were not allowed to sit in them. One was the higher spec one with leather seats., I was quite impressed with the quality and feel of the interior. I agree with Harry re the back door opening, it is a very odd decision to make the smaller one open first. It is not a huge problem but irritating and something you could not do anything to resolve.

I really hope someone comes up with an aftermarket grill soon to get rid of those fugly inner driving lights. Every time I see one it reminds me of this sort of abomination....

 

 

[Happyoldgit]

On 5/26/2023 at 10:41 AM, Naks said:

 

Another video from these folks but this time concentrating on the "infotainment" - with a better microphone!

 

 

[deep]

That control set up actually looks quite neat and functional for a modern set up.  Responsive too.  Though I am terribly old fashioned and happy with a handful of mechanical gauges, I guess they wouldn't be any cheaper to make and the market wouldn't agree with me!

I really don't get the beef with the front grill and lights.  Yes, a finer grill made of metal would help prevent branches coming in but it wouldn't look any better.  It's also far neater to put your driving lights in there than stuck out in front to catch the wind and attract thieves and more branches.  It all looks just fine, boat prow excepted (and I'd rather that than the new Defender's bulbous front).

Same with the rear lights - they are way nicer than the bland ugliness of most cars but people complain anyway.  Taste is taste and if you don't like it, it doesn't mean it's wrong!

I may yet get a Grenadier.  Give it a couple of years to see how they fare though...

Edited June 2, 2023 by deep

[jeremy996]

The recent "influencers" with the Grenadier have decided to sell. 

Some fairly dumb reasons to me, but hey! each to their own. Expecting the dual cab pickup to be lighter seems nuts to me. Under the existing HMRC rules, it would need to be less than 2.5 tonnes, to give a potential 1000kg payload or under 2040kg to qualify as "dual-use", neither of which seem very likely.

That they have broken even on an early sale suggests there is some desire for early delivery.

 

 

[Happyoldgit]

Kudos to him / them for being honest but cannot help but feel their purchase was somewhat naive and not well researched. Being first to own a brand new model, speccing big tyres, driving it in such a manner to appear "cool" are perhaps indicators of the some of the reasoning behind their purchase.
An "adventurer" where image is an important factor. 
The trim finish highlighted is poor and while it may be a fairly easy DIY fix that is not what ought to be required on a vehicle in this price bracket - even one with a commercial bias.

[deep]

For any New Zealand members (who somehow didn't make Ineos' mailing list), they will have a Grenadier stand at the upcoming Fieldays near Hamilton.  A good chance to get some sticky fingerprints on some windows and maybe mud on the mats?  Annoyed now they didn't have one at the Manfeild Fieldays...

[jeremy996]

The USA launch is now in full swing, so the US YouTubers are busy. I was quite taken by this and the comments below the video seem very much like the whinging on the European videos.

A few sharp observations about the alphabet soup of posh components - this has been built to a performance standard, not a price. The price sounds cheap to me, but US cars are quoted before dealer extorted markups and local sales taxes, so what do I know?

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by jeremy996
Typos and afterthoughts

[steve b]

I saw my first one today coming the other way on a main road and from the front it looked like a 110 with halo headlights. It was only as it passed that the side profile and door trim showed. A 5 door in white and working- towing an Ifor 3.5t 16ft trailer. 

 Looked ok I thought ....maybe in 15 years I'll start looking for a lightly used one 

Steve

[deep]

I watched that video this morning.  It did show the vehicle as being well considered and solidly built, rather than picking at trivia as so many like to do.  It will be good when they drive it because they have their set tracks, which will allow people to see how it stacks up against its competitors.

[Happyoldgit]

18 hours ago, jeremy996 said:

The USA launch is now in full swing, so the US YouTubers are busy. I was quite taken by this and the comments below the video seem very much like the whinging on the European videos.

A few sharp observations about the alphabet soup of posh components - this has been built to a performance standard, not a price. The price sounds cheap to me, but US cars are quoted before dealer extorted markups and local sales taxes, so what do I know?

 

 I think it is inevitable that there will be both pro and con [whinging?] comments below most of these videos, such is the nature of the Youtube beast. Much comment is made of "solid sounding doors" but of course a lot of research and work has gone into making car doors sound more substantial by the use of sound deadening material within the door and door trim cards, same applies to internal trim. Out of pure curiosity I would be interested to know the thickness of the door skin and frame material used on the Grenadier.

The jury is still out on whether I will bother trying to convince SWMBO that we should buy one. My initial enthusiasm about the project of some years ago has been tempered quite substantially in the interim.

[jeremy996]

46 minutes ago, Happyoldgit said:

 ....Much comment is made of "solid sounding doors" but of course a lot of research and work has gone into making car doors sound more substantial by the use of sound deadening material within the door and door trim cards, same applies to internal trim. Out of pure curiosity I would be interested to know the thickness of the door skin and frame material used on the Grenadier.

The doors are alloy, so your point is well made. The bulk of the body in white is galvanised steel, with the removable panels all in alloy, (bonnet and all 6 doors).

YouTube, (like Facebook and Twitter), uses the turmoil in the comments as a metric to show the specific video to more punters or not; saying something, anything that gets responses is good for the exposure and revenue.  

[Snagger]

I appreciate that as a promotional video, it is going to be focused on the positives, but I think this looks like a brilliant vehicle.  Jeremy’s posts show some of the negatives, mainly registration admin and the workshop manual unavailability, but these are the things that can improve fast.  I really do think this is what LR should have done with Defender.

[Chicken Drumstick]

I agree. I'm really liking everything about the Grenadier, bar the price. But mostly because it is so far beyond my means!!

Only other observation, the options list is extensive. Which means you'll end up with all sorts of specs used and likely missing many things you'd have wanted to spec when buying new. So I image buying used will be a right pain in the butt and you'll end up getting a spec you don't really want or missing items you'd love to have got.

Personally I have no benefit in it being registered as a commercial vehicle, so not sure if it can still be registered as a car. Price seems to be £60-64k for the spec I'd like.

 

I was going to say a Wrangler would be cheaper, as they where £49-52k not so long ago. Looking at the Jeep website now a 4 door starts at £61k  I think in the UK car makers are just greedy f'ers!!!! Where is the £35-38k off roader?

In the USA a base model 4 door Wrangler starts at $31k.

Ranger Raptor comes in at about £61k on the road inc VAT too. More performance focused than the Grenadier. Would certainly be a toss up if I was able to afford such a vehicle. The new Defender wouldn't get a look in.