Insurance

[g&t]

(especially as the mojority of companies i rang claim to be land rover specialists!)

I'm sorry, I know this is trivia but can't resist it. On the subject of 'LR specialists' our local main stealer can't spell Defender

[Chris Davies]

Just had my renewal from NFU, again big price increase about £180 last year £300 this year so have rung round. My problem is that I need business cover - in addition its a 1986 90 fitted with a defender 200tdi - a non standard engine replacement as far as insurance companies are concerned because its an engine out of a later landy. So the combination of its age, modifications and business use, most of the usual suspects wont cover me. May have to bite the bullet and stay with NFU. 'kin insurance I've never made a claim in 25+ years of driving I'm a relitively old git, no convictions, claims endorsements etc, you'd think they'd be falling over themselves to insure me .

Anybody else got these circumstances i.e business use (its only farming) and mods?

Chris

[Bowie69]

Yes, me, try Academy : http://www.academyinsurance.co.uk/contactus.aspx

[need4speed]

As far as I'm concerned if I tell them it's a 1993 110 CSW and they don't ask me how many seats it has then that's their problem. It's up to them to ask when it comes to their silly little personal rules. Modifications we are obliged to disclose, but there's no need for me to list the specs of the base vehicle as they should know that!

Quite right sir. Get it right up the robbing bast*rds. Im getting sick of companies in this country thinking they can just charge what they like. All so the directors can add another 3 holidays a year, and a bigger boat to the collection...

[TSD]

Anybody else got these circumstances i.e business use (its only farming) and mods?

I've got exactly the same situation, x 2.

Two modified vehicles and business use, no claims in the past 20 years etc. I live in the centre of a city, so NFU loads me a bit for that as well I'm sure. Like you, my renewal is up about 50% on last year.

If it's only that the premiums that have shot up this year, and it doesn't continue year on year, I'll live with it.

If their attitude and general business practices change to be more like most other insurance companies, I'll be moving on.

They've never penalised me for any mods.

They've never charged more than a £10 admin for temporary additional drivers.

They've never charged me for unusual greencard additions.

Most other companies I've dealt with seem to charge just because you phoned them.

NFU had a large leeway in my book, but I think they might have used up all their goodwill in one renewal notice

[reb78]

I've renewed with my local NFU office office today for £386 - wish i could have got it cheaper, but it is fully covered with a decent company and there are no suprises in store this time hopefully. It just grates as, like most of us, i get older, make no claims and have no convictions yet insurance still keeps going up.

What happened to the magical ages of 21 and 25 when it was supposed to decrease significantly........? Mine never did, just kept on going up!

[moore101]

just come across this thread with great interest as ive had enough of insurance company at the moment.

this may seem rather long winded and to cut to the 'interesting' bit go to *

im currently insured with nfu and at the age of 19 im paying an extortionate amount to insure my 3.5 lightweight with defender gearbox and rangie axles. £1680 to be exact (only way i feel better about it is that 17 year olds currently pay £2000 on 1.2 corsas, and of course the sound of the v8!)

a few weeks back i bought myself a classic car, 1974 1256cc vauxhall viva to run as a daily driver to and save a bit of money on fuel as the v8s been returning 13mpg recently. even if i put the v8 on megasquirt and drive it very conservatively its not going to return car like figures.

so i buy the car with its mot expiring that day (a saturday) and tax expiring on the monday. i had the intention of booking it in for mot within a week after taking the gearbox out and freeing the clutchplate from the flywheel so didnt declare it sorn (naughty i know but without having a tax reminder letter or the reference number off the front of a v5 its not the easiest thing to do?)

i rang nfu on the tuesday to get it covered for fire and theft in case it got pinched off the drive by some theiving sods. added it to my existing policy for the landrover as another vehicle for a cost of £5.84 for a year.

i ring them later in the week to arrange to swap over my insurance from the landrover on to the viva for the friday so i can take it round to get it mot'd. fine, no problems, got the reworked schedule and price (viva was £14 cheaper a year on fully comp etc, same cover as landy) got the vehicle mot'd, taxed and roadworthy so have the vehicle that weekend and all is well.

* this is where the problem starts.

i rang them the monday after the weekend as id forgotten to put the landrover on cover for fire and theft when i swapped the insurance to the viva, and i also wanted to enquire about a quote for a change in engine (just to see what it would cost to put a modern efi 2 litre lump in for, amongst other things, a bit more power as it can struggle to keep up with lorries if theres a strong headwind)

the very nice polite young lady asks me if im sure i only want this cover and not 3rd party or fully comp as well as with the vehicle having a current mot and tax i could potentially use it on the road. i reply saying that because the insurance wont cover it for road use i therefore cant use it on the road even though it has the potential. she says ah ye fair point and says it'll just get put on as fire and theft and there wont be any issue.

yesterday i ring them asking to swap the insurance over on to the landrover from midnight tonight until midnight sunday so ive got its use for this weekend for the trial sunday. i had a phonecall yesterday afternoon telling me that because of the modifications it had brought up a referal on the screen asking for a few details. the underwriters had asked for evidence for the engine modification and the change of gearing and axle swap. previously i had provided them with an engineers report for the engine conversion and when id emailed them about the axle and gearbox change they hadnt asked for this as it wasnt affecting the premium at all. so i tell the nice young lady on the other end of the phone i can resend the engineers report for the engine conversion through and can also send them one for the axle and gearbox change if its required. she says she'll check and give me a call back today.

today i receive that phone call (at 4:30) and she tells me theres a few issues.

firstly i get the good news that they will be able to insure the viva with a 2 litre for an extra 25% on my premium which is a lot but for cc compared to percentage increase its better than the 10% increase to change the 1256 for a 1300 ford crossflow!

then she moves on to the swapping of the vehicles for the weekend. she tells me that due to new legislation, its not possible to insure a vehicle for fire and theft if it is taxed and mot'd so for this weekend i wouldnt have any cover on the viva. not a problem, i can park it in the garage or just box it in with the 101 as a semi measure to protect it.

then she lets me know of even worse news. the underwriters have said that they would like the engineers reports for the axle and gearbox change even though they havent wanted them previously, (since May when the gearbox went in and i first notified them) without those reports they cant insure it. so im now left without insurance on the landrover for the weekend so cant trial it. not only that though, because of the new legislation saying its not possible to insure a vehicle for fire and theft if it is taxed and mot'd i dont currently have any cover on it at all

not a happy bunny! needless to say, monday morning i shall be ringing round every single insurance company i can find a number for to try and get some multicar quotes as i cant afford to insure both vehicles at £1600 a year each. must remember the first question to ask when i get through: will you insure a 19year old on a 3.5 modified landrover. have made the mistake of spending 10minutes writing down my details at a stand at a show before to be told that they wont insure anyone under 21 on an engine of 2 litres or more

[reb78]

Slightly OT, but related to moore101s post - i have a 1974 Magnum 1800, so its nice to see another into the viva/magnums! Dont change the engine for a 2 litre, pop an 1800 or even better a 2300 in it and improve it from a viva to a Magnum!

[western]

because of the new legislation saying its not possible to insure a vehicle for fire and theft if it is taxed and mot'd i dont currently have any cover on it at all

if it's not taxed or mot'd then it should be on SORN,

did she say where/when this 'new' legislation came out ? reckon you need to find that out 7 the underwriters IMHO are being very arsey as they have previously insured your LR.

[Retroanaconda]

It's the new rules recently discussed in another thread that basically mean if a car is taxed, it must be insured.

It's a way of being able to catch a few extra uninsured drivers without having to physically see the vehicles on the road. It is just assumed that taxed = on the road. If a vehicle is off the road it should be SORN'd and then no insurance is required.

[moore101]

Reb78- viva will most likely only get an engine that fits in with minimal modification to existing parts and the original engine will be put up safely so that if one day I wanted it back to standard it could be. Although I am tempted to go v8 but I think if I go that option I'll sell my viva in exchange for a completely rotten one just for panels and fully spaceframe it. Anyway, I digress.

I also agree that underwriters are being stupidly arsey about it as they've insured the vehicle before. I did wonder the last time I rang it to swap why I had to give all the details of the vehicle again, almost as if they're not kept on record.

As for it having to be insured for full road use if it's taxed and mot'd then that leaves me completely stuffed. It sits on the drive/in back garden/wherever for the days in which it's not in use, and I already pay for an mot and tax for it to sit there just so I can rtv trial it. On top of that i cant afford to pay £1600 for the privilege of driving the vehicle 12 days a year (it probably would get more than that but you can see my point I'm sure)

Think I'm going to have to 'sell' the vehicle to mum or dad and get them to insure it as there's no other way of getting it insured easily just to be able to drive it to trials and back. Mum or dad would only have to drive the vehicle to work two days a month and they'd then be legible for main user based on mileage.

[matthew74]

I think we'd better start saving up for next years insurance increase:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12400659

[Pastycrimper]

Interesting.....

Having just got my first Defender I decided to enquire with the NFU first - primarily because my Dad has his whole farm, his JCB and 2 other vehicles insured with them. They have always been very good - for example when Dad got his 1978 SIII it cost £21 to add me as another driver (on his policy). So I got my Dad to speak to our local NFU office on my behalf - I outlined all of the MODS (intercooler, winch, sloar panel loads of stuff). They spent a LONG time discussing with the underwriter to th epoint where I had to get Dad to harass them - I figured they took one look at the mods and were just going to up everything.

They eventually (after 9 days) got in touch with me personally as my Dad had said it was a policy to be in my name. I received a quote for fully comp including all my MODS for £365. So I am thinking that the reality here is:

1) They do NOT look after existing customers - I'm guessing mine is cheap because I am a new customer. I bet next year it will go up massively. Neither does ANY insurance company. This is really annoying because (just like phones as someone mentioned) what we probably need to do is research, get the lowest quote and change each year - which when there are MODs and special things beocmes a real pain in the ar**chops!

2) As another link showed - the insurance industry as a whole is rasing premiums across the board - they say they have been losing money for years. It is all just nonsense.

FYI I am 32 and have never had an accident or claim since passing my test at 17. My citroen 2litre HDI was insured last year with direct line at £220 per year, this year they want £389 - thats direct line and no landrover. I just logged onto swiftcover for the car and they offered £225.....hence its all about NEW customers I reckon.

[nickwilliams]

I think Pastycrimper's comments about new customers is right to some extent. There is no doubt that the money flows round the insurance world in ways which us mere mortals do not have a hope of understanding, even if the industry were honest about all of the relevant interests, which they are not.

Specifically with reference to NFU, however, I suspect that what is going on here is that they have decided that they are less interested in the general car insurance market than in the market specifically associated with farmers, so anyone who has a policy with them which covers additional equipment such as farm machinery is given a much better price than those who want to insure only one vehicle which is clearly not used on a farm. I have a tractor insured with them as well as my Landrover.

The 'proof' of this (if I'm right) will be when I get to the annual renewal in September, but in the meanwhile I have chopped and changed the vehicles on my policy several times so far this year and given them plenty of opportunity to hike the premium if they want to, but there has been no change which could not be accounted for by the removal of the extra mutual bonus which they applied during the 2010 'anniversary' year.

Nick.

[Pastycrimper]

The 'proof' of this (if I'm right) will be when I get to the annual renewal in September, but in the meanwhile I have chopped and changed the vehicles on my policy several times so far this year and given them plenty of opportunity to hike the premium if they want to, but there has been no change which could not be accounted for by the removal of the extra mutual bonus which they applied during the 2010 'anniversary' year.

Nick.

Will be interesting to see! You were right I think to mention those who have Landrovers on "dedicated" farm policies - I wonder if I had approached NFU direct without mentioning my Dad whether things would have differed (probably yes I think). He has had his renewal and said he could definitely see the effects of last years anniversary....i.e this year is more expensive but only really by the ammount that last year was cheaper. However overall the quote hasn't gone up that much BUT of course he has the full farm cover [The farmland itself (public liability etc on the cornish coast path, one jcb, one tractor, 2 LRs, a car and numerous buildings]. I suspect as Nick says that they are going to "protect" these customers and that just private LR owners are probably going to suffer (as has been shown byu this thread).

Best

Ziggy

[UdderlyOffroad]

This has probably been mentioned before (I’ve kept an eye on this thread but might’ve missed it so apologies if this is so) but:

I tried to do some digging as to precisely why premiums had rocketed. Everybody keeps parroting this “premiums up 40%” mantra but mentioning no reason as to why. Turns out this was the headline finding of an AA survey. (linky to press release). Quoth the blurb:

Douglas says that recent years have seen intense competition encouraged by the growth of price comparison sites, which had kept premiums artificially low to the point that many insurance companies were making large losses on car insurance business.

In other words, too many people were using price comparison websites, therefore to attract business insurers were pricing themselves below cost, and this situation was unsustainable. So now you know who to blame for premiums going up. The bl***dy, f**king, irritating, face-you-could-never-get-tired-punching “Go Compare” man, for raising public awareness of price comparison websites.

I’m sure this isn’t the only reason we as a group are facing increases – NFU’s decision to lose a large part of its customer base by pricing themselves out of the market, for instance has already been extensively covered. Combine that with ridiculous EU rules re insured to drive other vehicles, European court decisions re female drivers, revenue-raising-UK legislation (taxed != On the road, thanks very much DfT), and finally the Association of British Insurer’s general attitude (“Oh look, there’s 13 lunar months to a year but only 12 calendar months, that’s unlucky! Premiums will have to go up, I’m afraid…”) means this year has been one hell of a clustershock to our wallets…

[Paul Humphreys]

Well just had my renewal and my insurance has drope by £50

Paul

[rawsondsr]

im with peter best. down £100 to £145 this year

[matthew74]

Another year, another £100 increase. Thanks NFU.

[western]

Interesting.....

Having just got my first Defender I decided to enquire with the NFU first - primarily because my Dad has his whole farm, his JCB and 2 other vehicles insured with them. They have always been very good - for example when Dad got his 1978 SIII it cost £21 to add me as another driver (on his policy). So I got my Dad to speak to our local NFU office on my behalf - I outlined all of the MODS (intercooler, winch, sloar panel loads of stuff). They spent a LONG time discussing with the underwriter to th epoint where I had to get Dad to harass them - I figured they took one look at the mods and were just going to up everything.

They eventually (after 9 days) got in touch with me personally as my Dad had said it was a policy to be in my name. I received a quote for fully comp including all my MODS for £365. So I am thinking that the reality here is:

1) They do NOT look after existing customers - I'm guessing mine is cheap because I am a new customer. I bet next year it will go up massively. Neither does ANY insurance company. This is really annoying because (just like phones as someone mentioned) what we probably need to do is research, get the lowest quote and change each year - which when there are MODs and special things beocmes a real pain in the ar**chops!

2) As another link showed - the insurance industry as a whole is rasing premiums across the board - they say they have been losing money for years. It is all just nonsense.

FYI I am 32 and have never had an accident or claim since passing my test at 17. My citroen 2litre HDI was insured last year with direct line at £220 per year, this year they want £389 - thats direct line and no landrover. I just logged onto swiftcover for the car and they offered £225.....hence its all about NEW customers I reckon.

my 110CSW is with NFU too, but via their agent in Yeovil, always had good service & prompt answer to any enquires to NFU & small change in this years premium either about 46quid more than last year plus the loyalty discount & no claims bomus,

[TravelTed]

We had our renewal from NFU and it was a 75% rise, after getting up off the floor, gave them a call and asked why they have hiked up the price by 75% AND HOW THEY HAD THE GALL TO OFFER ME A 7% LOYALTY DISCOUNT. Sorry for shouting but it really got me thinking about who to go with. Excuse I got was the market prices increasing also the amount of Landrovers being stolen, to which I had to explain to them that our landy had not been stolen,damaged or in any way altered. they then offered me a further reduction of 2%. that was as far as the conversation went. got off the phone and on to planet google to look for affordable insurance, Tesco's was the best price at £210 fully comp and they also offered a breakdown service for £25 extra provided the vehicle is less than 10 years old.

[Howitzer]

Mine dropped to £270 FC with me and my fiance on as named drivers. That includes the modifications which to be fair are only slight. I'm 29, was banned in 2007 and have 3 points I still have to declare.

That's with Adrian Flux and also incldes off road breakdown cover up to £2500, which is handy if I break something when out laning. I've not had to claim from them yet mind you.

Dave!

[landroversforever]

Mine dropped to £270 FC with me and my fiance on as named drivers. That includes the modifications which to be fair are only slight. I'm 29, was banned in 2007 and have 3 points I still have to declare.

That's with Adrian Flux and also incldes off road breakdown cover up to £2500, which is handy if I break something when out laning. I've not had to claim from them yet mind you.

Dave!

Got any more details on the offroad breakdown cover? I'm with Flux and I'm covered insurance-wise off road as long as it isnt a competitive speed event, and I have breakdown cover on the road...

[Bowie69]

If out laning you are still on the highway and therefore not 'off-road', so any breakdown cover should cover it really.

[landroversforever]

That's a good point, but I'm sure they will have some sort of clause in there to stop you