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another pub idea... super efficient handbrake

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The transmission brake on landrovers has always been more than adequate in all my experience of them , the only problem was on one series vehicle that a mounting pivot was damaged ( the flat shoulders were rounded) . The gearbox mountings need to be in good condition , and the handbrake can be used when in motion as an emergency brake without damage but you need to be very progressive with the application as it is a geared brake (thru the diff) . I can see the point of the X brake if you are in deep mud . or wading frequently , otherwise cant see the need . JMHO

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Do you have the spreader that goes between the nut and the back face of the chassis bracket? The pivot would move if missing...

the spreader plate is there and correctly fitted.

The transmission brake on landrovers has always been more than adequate in all my experience of them , the only problem was on one series vehicle that a mounting pivot was damaged ( the flat shoulders were rounded) . The gearbox mountings need to be in good condition , and the handbrake can be used when in motion as an emergency brake without damage but you need to be very progressive with the application as it is a geared brake (thru the diff) . I can see the point of the X brake if you are in deep mud . or wading frequently , otherwise cant see the need . JMHO

yes and no, in my experience, they have a great habit of either sticking on, being extremely useless or somehow both at the same time. i often wade in deep water/plough through mud etc and from my experience the handbrake soon becomes full of transfer box oil or grease no matter if the transferbox is actually leaking or not. :hysterical: im basically fed up of having to repair it, and in the event of oil somehow getting into it, making it useless.

the theorey of braking the rear wheels results in no axle stress if you were to use it as an emergency brake, 2x larger brake drums (which equates to roughly the same force given the effectiveness multiplication of 3.54 times of the diff) and the ease of serviceability, if the brakes are adjusted and kept properly, so is the handbrake.

therefore its never ignored. plus the pesky linkage that i have never been fond of is eradicated (well still there and useable to keep legal)

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Excuse my ignorance but are ABS callipers built with separate circuits for the pistons ?

If so you could use a set with one of the hydraulic lines running to a hand operated master cylinder as a parking brake ?

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Excuse my ignorance but are ABS callipers built with separate circuits for the pistons ?

If so you could use a set with one of the hydraulic lines running to a hand operated master cylinder as a parking brake ?

On that vain you could use 200tdi disco front calipers as they have separate ports for each set of pistons.

Mike

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hmm, front wheel acted handbrake, very outside the box.

i like it, But. what first pops into my mind, is towing. have you ever noticed how inefficient your front brakes can be in a light(er) tow vehicle when you have a fairly heavy nose weight?

EDIT: with regards to being pulled backwards down a hill by the trailer more than anything else. forward wise i could see it holding fine.

this could be an issue, although this is just an armchair thought.

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Stick it in 4WD if facing that issue, Mikey.

I can't imagine, that once held it would try and run away, but I do understand your concerns :)

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Putting my blue-sky outside-the-box throwing-spices-in-the-think-wok imagination-goggles on...

If you're talking about locking pins, what about a solenoid or extra rod/arm into the transfer box that locks against the teeth of the gears? You could have a dog that engages through the PTO hole onto the input gear PTO spline, for example.

Or dual callipers / line locks as has already been mentioned.

Or just carry a brick or lump of wood - deluxe upgrade is to attach a string to it.

Unfortunately, aside from the last one, it's likely that an X-brake will be cheaper & more effective overall.

...I'm off to patent to the PTO-brake, before anyone else does!

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Back to basics: The main reason that the landrover handbrake is usually ineffective is that the oil seal next to it is leaking. So you have oily brakeshoes. Maybe solve that first? The pin thing is a non starter in my opinion, because you cant release it when under load. ok, you can try to release it by riding the clutch, but its a pain in my view. the x eng brake setup is pretty good in my opinion, so I would try to replicate that if you cant afford it.

Daan

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i've always hated the rods and levers setup, and have several times pondered replacing those with a cable of some sort. i think a RRC is cable operated? you might have to move the point where it attaches to the lever, so it gives the right amount of travel in the cable, but that shouldnt be too hard to work out.

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If I remember correctly the Saab 99 had a front wheel hand brake.

Mike

Yes they did .. and they were effective for the first 500 miles after each adjustment!

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I have to say, i wouldn't want a handbrake that wouldnt pass an mot and a standard brake i had to fiddle with every year anyway just to pass an MOT. The easiest option, surely is to make good a handbrake that would also pass an MOT.

I don't think there is anything really wrong with the series drum, it couldnt really be simpler, granted the rods and levers are a bit rubbish so why not just weld a bracket to the transfer box mount to take the end of a defender handbrake cable and change the handbrake lever so that you have a reliable operating cable rather than all the pivots and linkages?

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... and the M90 like the coiler version.

But then they have to come from somewhere ;)

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indeed, with a free disc and bracket, and an easy source for a caliper you think someone would jump at the chance....

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Could go RRC with it, and weld a hand brake bracket to the transfer box mounting leg, so the hand brake isn't moving the whole transmission set. It also gives a chance for better alignment on that bottom pivot, which would be a new pivot nearer the line of pull.

PTO brake :) Nice one!

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the 310M looks remarkably like the series caliper, that X-Eng use........

The 2510M looks more like.

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I can only say from experience that ever since I made my hydraulic disc brake setup on the 80" I haven't had the slightest issue nor have I had to tweak or adjust a single thing since I made it. It just works as simple as that. Plenty of power, good 'feel' through the lever. And when parked for months with a lock applied to the lever it still has the same pressure when I get back to it.

Whether or not it is MOT'able is whole other matter, and not something we care about in this section of the forum ;) I would however say that by fitting one of those dual calipers with hydraulic and cable you would have a very good package. With two levers, one for mocking about and one for parking long term/ with heavy load

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I did a bit of simple maths a while back to work out what caliper would be suitable, once you account for the reduction in the diffs a single hand brake caliper from a 1.6t ish vehicle should be able to hold a standard disco when fitted to the in place of the drum.

The diff gearing reduces the force by 3-4 times, weight is a bit more and bigger wheel radius adds a bit and double that as its one caliper not two.

So something like a volvo estate ir similar would do.

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indeed, with a free disc and bracket, and an easy source for a caliper you think someone would jump at the chance....

If Mikey doesnt want to,

I know another poor student who needs a hand brake for a 101" who would jump at the chance!

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The 2510M looks more like.

You'd be right there!

I tried the idea of a pin which drops in to a hole in a disk - but it suffers from one big problem. If you try to do a hill start from being held on the handbrake, you have to release the clutch just enough to allow the pin to withdraw - otherwise it stays jammed in place. Also, if you applied it while moving, if it engaged, it would rip the transfer box apart!

A much better solution is how it works on an Auto-box. They use a toothed wheel (with trapezoidal teeth) with a short rack pivoted at one end. When you pull the cable (put it in to park), the other end of the rack is pulled towards the toothed wheel. The cable (park lever position) connects to the rack via a strong tension spring such that if the torque is too high, it will slip rather than damage anything. This arrangement also allows easy hill-starts.

parkinggear.jpg

The parts for this could potentially be laser cut, milled, or even cut with a band-saw if you were patient! More importantly, you could almost make it for free!

Si

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A hydraulic 'helper' handbrake is also perfectly possible. You need to add an accumulator in to the circuit which maintains the pressure as the components cool or the seals weep.

Si

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hmmm been busy for a while now and not had chance to think about this or catch up on the thread. there are some good ideas knocking about the most tempting at the moment as it is easiest is to create a bracket which will take a cable to the standard drum. with the right leverage some hefty amounts of pressure could be applied in the standard drum along with a good rebuild and replacing the output oil seal and maybe working out a way to knurl the inside face of the drum for ultra pad grippyness

wouldnt have to worry too much about wear i don't think because who has ever actually worn out a set of handbrake pads (unless there stuck on)

Keep It Simple Stupid :)

i would love a hydraulic rear-wheels system though

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