Nonimouse Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/29/parents-love-playmobil-video-explains-coronavirus-kids-12473079/ this one has less big words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 I feel bbc article is written with a degree of bias. Over 80s have a 10% chance of passing a way in a year and that’s the same chance as playing Russian roulette with a 10 chamber gun so over 80s might as well do that almost feels like the point being made which isn’t how that works (I appreciate that’s not exactly how Corona works either) I certainly accept an amount of people die each year and an amount of people with Corona would have passed away this year if we didn’t have Corona. I’m more interested in the people that are being saved and I agree at some point the economy has a measurable effect on people’s lifespan but just feels like it isn’t as balanced as it could be. sorn’d the Land Rover as I don’t think it’s going out this month. Seeing as I’m messing with the seats it probably wasn’t anyway but think the lockdown makes that more definite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Which part of the article did you feel was biased and biased towards what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Towards the idea that people that are unfortunately dying of Corona virus have only a short amount of life span left. Some will, some will just happen to have the virus as they die and not actually die from it but a good amount are being saved with the lockdown. In January 2019 (not this year) 56,000 people passed away in the uk and that’s just the reality that humans don’t yet last forever but unchecked I think this virus would be taking more people than natural or other causes and we need to get through this and then the Government needs to shake the magic money tree like never before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 Okay. Personally it didn't come across to me as biased. I think it's the whole flatten the curve thing. I don't think more people would necessarily die in the first instance if it was left unchecked, it's just we would probably see the deaths and critical illness happen much quicker in a compressed amount of time which would totally overwhelm our hospitals. The knock on effect of that though is people probably would then die who wouldn't have because they could not get the hospital care they needed. I think the article is good because its changing the language used from "died of coronavirus" to "died with coronavirus". Two small but very important differences. I think the magic money tree is being shaken so much its going to vomit. I'm considering SORNing my 110 too. Quite ironic given the price of diesel lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 To me though, if Coronavirus has hastened a death, even by a few months, then it has killed them. So should be counted as such. I have to wonder if other countries which have a lot of cases, but not many deaths (yet) are measuring using different parameters. If you are going to SORN your vehicle, best to fill with diesel while its cheap, it also helps stop condensation in the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 If flattening the curve came across then great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 45 minutes ago, smallfry said: To me though, if Coronavirus has hastened a death, even by a few months, then it has killed them. So should be counted as such. I have to wonder if other countries which have a lot of cases, but not many deaths (yet) are measuring using different parameters. If you are going to SORN your vehicle, best to fill with diesel while its cheap, it also helps stop condensation in the tank. No - it is not as simple as that I'm afraid, plus it causes panic in the general public which leads on to mass buying of pasta and toilet rolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 Was thinking about this in various historical contexts, as you can do with time on your hands, and the total covid deaths in UK + USA + Italy to date is roughly the same as those killed in the first hour of the battle of the Somme. Then they had a few more years of that followed by Spanish flu. Doesn't seem so bad now 😬 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 3 hours ago, smallfry said: To me though, if Coronavirus has hastened a death, even by a few months, then it has killed them. So should be counted as such. I have to wonder if other countries which have a lot of cases, but not many deaths (yet) are measuring using different parameters. If you are going to SORN your vehicle, best to fill with diesel while its cheap, it also helps stop condensation in the tank. You always have to be careful looking at any statistics, if they are come from other countries you need to be even more careful. A higher rate of testing will result in more positive cases being diagnosed for people who only have mild symptoms, if you only test those admitted to hospital (as per UK until recently) then you are only testing those who are already in a bad way so the apparent death rate per positive test is significantly higher. Even death numbers can be affected by the way results are recorded, are you counting those who die WITH the virus or OF the virus, in the extreme someone involved in a road accident and dies but is found to have the virus has die with it but died of being run over by a HGV, this is obviously the extreme but there is always a grey zone. I will openly admit I don't have enough medical knowledge to say where the line is or should be drawn, others judging by there posts are obviously involved in the medical profession so I will leave that to them. As most people will remember a few years back there was a big thing in the UK about banning bull bars (frontal protection systems) on vehicles, statistics were produced that people were more likely to die if hit by a vehicle with a bull bar than a vehicle without, it was very hard to pin down how the statistics were produced. In the simplest form all accidents involving PLG registered vehicles were looked at, in that case its not difficult to see why you are more likely to die in accident involving a vehicle with a bull bar, most vehicles with bull bars will be 4x4's and weight about 2 tonnes or more, the average PLG vehicle will be a hatchback or saloon car weight about 1 to 1 1/2 tonne with a much lower front end, the results for an accident involving a Ranger Rover or a Citreon C1 are not comparable regardless of whether a bull bar was involved. This is nothing to do with the current situation but just an indication of how statistic which are correct in the numbers and can be verified as accurate can be manipulated by the way the results are collected and the data pool used to give the results someone wants them to show. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 You can prove anything with statistics 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted April 3, 2020 Author Share Posted April 3, 2020 38 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said: You can prove anything with statistics Just like there is no sign of Land Rover on here at all ! Madness ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted April 3, 2020 Author Share Posted April 3, 2020 Perhaps I should get my coat 🧥 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy50 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Lies , damned lies ,and statistics ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 As proven by the Brands chart. Hotpoint and Indesit are part of Whirlpool. Add them together and they go to the top of the list, giving a different chart. Atatistics can say what ever you want them to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Perhaps a bit of panic would not be a bad thing. If it keeps the irresponsible idiots at home this weekend, instead of flocking to the seaside or wherever. No doubt later the news will be full of it, thus rendering this whole lockdown and economic damage pointless. If it isn't, I will be surprised ………. and pleased. We shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 18 minutes ago, smallfry said: If it isn't, I will be surprised ………. and pleased. We shall see. Agreed, it will be amazing if the beaches aren't full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Corona virus is serious. The media is helping stoke the panic buying. I doubt panic buying muppets have statical table analysis driving them to need 300 loo rolls. Not all numbers are misleading. I’m sure the media will find a group somewhere of 10 people together but the vast majority will be in doing the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 I'm looking carefully through the numbers I can get. I'm not convinced this lockdown is either effective or going to "save" any lives if you take a broader view and factor in economic, mental health, societal and quality of life to name a few. I have a suspicion Sweden has it right, we have it wrong: we're into diminishing returns locking people in their homes, with a disproportionate - and far reaching - effect on every other aspect of life. The books don't balance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 I have the same concerns, I was just discussing this with the boss. I think the difference is the Swedes have a much stronger social responsibility mind set than us. Their rules are quite similar, but without the laws to back them. It will be interesting. I think that once the NHS are up to cope with the demand then the rules will be relaxed a bit. I hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 People dying now caught the virus 4 weeks ago. The lockdown will take a while to kick in but it will show soon. With this sort of delay on something that doubles every coupe of days if you miss the right time by the time you know that you have a very very serious problem. Doctors and nurses are dying from it now and we are building large emergency hospitals to cope with the numbers accounting for lockdown so not thinking the system has any spare capacity. We can see how Sweden goes but it’s a risk move. History will show us with hindsight who took the best path but money isn’t really real anyway so huge bail loans are easier to magic up than 30,000 ventilators and staff to run them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 ....and now even the heralded Singapore is entering lockdown. The Swedes are where we were pre-lockdown. It will come to them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 I fear you are right. No one has done this before. It's good to challenge the approach the government takes, but they do have good advisors, and as much experience as anyone else. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 I don't for one moment think this approach has been taken lightly or unnecessarily. It is to stop people requiring hospital care all in one large go completely overwhelming our hospitals. If that were to happen and you require none coronavirus related medical care you wouldn't get it. Then we really would see the death toll rise above average in 2020. Another factor to remember with some countries who don't have a care system as good as ours in the UK is that people will die more readily for other things because they don't get the same quality care. I agree with the comments that we will be starting to see the benefits of the lock down measures in that our hospital system will cope compared to countries who took a different approach. Anyway on the plus side, there hasn't been a single recorded case in North Korea. Maybe if you cough you get shot?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, lo-fi said: I'm looking carefully through the numbers I can get. I'm not convinced this lockdown is either effective or going to "save" any lives if you take a broader view and factor in economic, mental health, societal and quality of life to name a few. I have a suspicion Sweden has it right, we have it wrong: we're into diminishing returns locking people in their homes, with a disproportionate - and far reaching - effect on every other aspect of life. The books don't balance... The Swedish deaths per capita will be among the highest in the world. It all depends if money or lives is more important to you. Edited April 4, 2020 by Red90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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