Nice camper, but .......

[Snagger]

10 hours ago, deep said:

Some strange negativity here.  I've seen large four wheel drive campers (and buses on the same chassis) in Australia successfully taking on some surprisingly hard terrain.  I've also seen single axle buses and horse trucks embarrassingly stuck in mildly wet fields.  If you want to explore the planet and get into some more remote locations with a vehicle that is big enough to provide long-term living space, it's a no-brainer you'd look for something with more traction and ground clearance than a bus!  I know.  I lived in a bus for four years and poked it into some very gnarly places and the limitations were severe - and that was only five tons and had old fashioned mild overhangs.

In 2004, I did nearly 20,000 miles criss-crossing Australian deserts in a Range Rover.  The vehicle was excellent for the terrain I encountered but the living accommodation had me endlessly looking at larger campers that had made it to at least some of the same spots.  The one in the original post would probably fare quite well (if build quality matched the price!).

It is a bit of a negative thread, but there is no denying that brown Defender conversion would be a terrible drive and would get stuck on a soft verge, let alone real off road.  I can imagine its chassis buckling on severe roads like in Africa or Russia, too.  It is stretched far too long and is far too overladen for practical or mechanical purposes.   The green one with the rounded camper body isn’t to my taste and that shape leads to a lot of wasted space, but is at least driveable (as long as there are no low branches or bridges).

[rusty_wingnut]

SOme cracking 4x4 vans out there, namely SPrinter and Transit, surely they're a better start point for this?

 

Interestingly I had a chat with the owner of the aero camper landy thing at Goodwood and the bloke was so up himself it's no wonder he's asking the earth for it. Total kn8b

[Snagger]

8 minutes ago, rusty_wingnut said:

SOme cracking 4x4 vans out there, namely SPrinter and Transit, surely they're a better start point for this?

 

Interestingly I had a chat with the owner of the aero camper landy thing at Goodwood and the bloke was so up himself it's no wonder he's asking the earth for it. Total kn8b

I can’t remember the name of the YouTube channel, but there is a van-living chap with a converted London Ambulance Sprinter, which he calls Amber (he named his spaniel Lance…).  He has had a fair few mechanical issues and is rapidly learning how such things work and how to fix them.  It took him a while to accept the advice of a few watchers to ditch the troublesome air suspension and retrofit a heavy duty leaf spring system, but he eventually learned and is making a simpler, more reliable base vehicle with a pretty practical and comfortable living suite of much more reasonable size despite living in it permanently, not just for trips.  He was also a little slow to accept the advice of fitting AT tyres, despite his frequently getting stuck on remote tracks with the commercial tyres, but he came around to the advice some gave him on that and gets surprisingly far off road despite his Sprinter being 2wd and very heavy.  It seems a much more appropriate base vehicle with ample capabilities for most.  These 4wd conversions won’t have much more off road capability, in fairness.  Fitted out LR or other comparable ambulances would be far better than those very expensive conversions.

[FridgeFreezer]

15 hours ago, deep said:

Some strange negativity here.  I've seen large four wheel drive campers (and buses on the same chassis) in Australia successfully taking on some surprisingly hard terrain.

I guess we see a lot of big-money "Ultimate Overlander" builds but never see them actually go anywhere - certainly nowhere that requires their claimed capabilities, and from the few blogs etc. I've seen of these things being used, the locals are usually tooling around in a ratty old Corolla or 4x2 Merc truck from 1975.

[landroversforever]

42 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I guess we see a lot of big-money "Ultimate Overlander" builds but never see them actually go anywhere - certainly nowhere that requires their claimed capabilities, and from the few blogs etc. I've seen of these things being used, the locals are usually tooling around in a ratty old Corolla or 4x2 Merc truck from 1975.

It IMO boils down to posing. Same with the 110/130s you see at the shows with absolutely every single 'overlanding' accessory, yet it gets used once a year at the show and doesn't go anywhere other than Tesco in the mean time. 

[western]

Article on this vehicle in August 22 issue of LRO. 

[Ed Poore]

1 hour ago, landroversforever said:

It IMO boils down to posing. Same with the 110/130s you see at the shows with absolutely every single 'overlanding' accessory, yet it gets used once a year at the show and doesn't go anywhere other than Tesco in the mean time. 

Reminds me of a trip down to Cornwall. We were parked up in a campsite cooking some venison steaks with all the trimmings on the BBQ. Chap in a very shiny 110 pulls up and asks if he can setup next to us - well it's a public area... Proceeds to pop up the roof on the 110 and see a full kitchen, storage etc., inside, then proceeds to eat a cold tin of baked beans. Obviously couldn't afford anything else after the conversion 

Then I happened across the "build" on Defender2 

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic56530-15.html

[Snagger]

There’s a lot of good planning on that 110.

[Anderzander]

I was about to say the same - and they are getting some good use from it !  Looks like they’ve had some fab trips. 

[Ed Poore]

I just liked the irony that he was eating cold baked beans when he had a kitchen yet next door to him I was sleeping on a king size mattress in the back of the 110 and we had venison tenderloin, veg and rice for dinner off a BBQ.

Okay admittedly I couldn't stand up in mine to get dressed but it still keeps its function as a daily driver with 5 seats.

[reb78]

This threads a bit like the normal roof tent negativity in general... 'Why would you want one of them, take ages to setup, no lions in the UK' 

Mine is up in five mins and down in 7 and the beds already made. 
 

I like perusing all the options - every one has a novel idea you could copy somewhere. The F350 camper would suit the environment where its sold for sure. The original camper in this thread looks plush inside - more of a living room on wheels perhaps than a camper but still ideas to draw on. 

[landroversforever]

2 hours ago, Ed Poore said:

I just liked the irony that he was eating cold baked beans when he had a kitchen yet next door to him I was sleeping on a king size mattress in the back of the 110 and we had venison tenderloin, veg and rice for dinner off a BBQ.

Okay admittedly I couldn't stand up in mine to get dressed but it still keeps its function as a daily driver with 5 seats.

Got a mate who will always choose cold beans over hot if asked…. He is a bit of a nutter  

[Anderzander]

46 minutes ago, reb78 said:

no lions in the UK

I think the whole roof tents are to get away from lions idea is flawed for other reasons too…

 

 

[smallfry]

28 minutes ago, landroversforever said:

Got a mate who will always choose cold beans over hot if asked…. He is a bit of a nutter  

Perhaps he doesnt know how to cook them ? Not everyone is a budding Jamie Oliver !

[landroversforever]

6 minutes ago, smallfry said:

Perhaps he doesnt know how to cook them ? Not everyone is a budding Jamie Oliver !

He’s a great cook, just prefers them cold! Got another strange scouting friend who is partial to beans with jaeger in them  

[Happyoldgit]

Crikey, that photo of Elsa on the roof of George Adamson's Series One brings back memories, I think I still have my original  hardback copies of Born Free and Forever Free tucked away up in the loft. I always fancied meeting and having a chat with Adamson.

Interesting thread.

[Nonimouse]

2 hours ago, Happyoldgit said:

Crikey, that photo of Elsa on the roof of George Adamson's Series One brings back memories, I think I still have my original  hardback copies of Born Free and Forever Free tucked away up in the loft. I always fancied meeting and having a chat with Adamson.

Interesting thread.

Likewise

[deep]

I have George Adamson's biography "Bwana Game".  All the Land Rovers in there have dented roofs!  Further, general wisdom (when we lived in Kenya) was that canvas offered insufficient protection against marauding lions...

[Badger110]

On 7/25/2022 at 1:19 PM, Ed Poore said:

Reminds me of a trip down to Cornwall. We were parked up in a campsite cooking some venison steaks with all the trimmings on the BBQ. Chap in a very shiny 110 pulls up and asks if he can setup next to us - well it's a public area... Proceeds to pop up the roof on the 110 and see a full kitchen, storage etc., inside, then proceeds to eat a cold tin of baked beans. Obviously couldn't afford anything else after the conversion 

Then I happened across the "build" on Defender2 

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic56530-15.html

Gary’s a really nice chap and his build was done well with some good ideas. I chatted with him for awhile about the pros and cons of water tanks but I decided not to install one on mine but he’s got the sill mounted one I believe.

 

Another chap on there, Timcat, has done a no holes barred conversion but went for an aluminium interior, again done very well. He’s currently touring Africa with his wife on their RTW trip.

His build is here;

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic71382.html
 

He has spent a lot of money on the build, replacing and upgrading pretty much everything and still retained the original weight I believe.  It shows what can be done and still keep the truck looking original.

[Nonimouse]

Timcat quotes his weight as just over 3 tonnes. The max allowable GVW on his 110 should be 3050kgs. This would mean he is running all up weight plus, 100% of the time. That's not good.

I love looking at these builds, having been involved in building stuff for folk, both when working for OEC and then for myself; but it does scare me just how much money, time and weight people put into a build and then when something goes wrong they don't understand why.

AT OEC, a large part of our business was sorting out the problems from badly thought out (and built) builds, mainly from the big players in the 'Overland' game, with repairs to returning vehicles being next on the list.  The worst was a 130 returning from two years in Africa, straight to us, for an MOT. Every body mount, bar one was stress fractured. the body was held on with ratchet straps. Both A posts and one B post were fractured, the second row doors (Hi Cap DC) and the passenger door had to be tied closed. Most of the bushes were simply gone.

It was essentially undriveable, yet had come up through Europe , with two adults and two kids on board. Testement to the virtual unkillable nature of the Defender, but also a cracking  (ha ha) example of just how badly people get it worng, with weights, missmatched springs, over stiff shocks, loading, tyre size.  

What really killed that 130, was Mali.

We rebuilt it, properly. New HD chassis included

[landroversforever]

40 minutes ago, Nonimouse said:

Timcat quotes his weight as just over 3 tonnes. The max allowable GVW on his 110 should be 3050kgs. This would mean he is running all up weight plus, 100% of the time. That's not good.

I love looking at these builds, having been involved in building stuff for folk, both when working for OEC and then for myself; but it does scare me just how much money, time and weight people put into a build and then when something goes wrong they don't understand why.

AT OEC, a large part of our business was sorting out the problems from badly thought out (and built) builds, mainly from the big players in the 'Overland' game, with repairs to returning vehicles being next on the list.  The worst was a 130 returning from two years in Africa, straight to us, for an MOT. Every body mount, bar one was stress fractured. the body was held on with ratchet straps. Both A posts and one B post were fractured, the second row doors (Hi Cap DC) and the passenger door had to be tied closed. Most of the bushes were simply gone.

It was essentially undriveable, yet had come up through Europe , with two adults and two kids on board. Testement to the virtual unkillable nature of the Defender, but also a cracking  (ha ha) example of just how badly people get it worng, with weights, missmatched springs, over stiff shocks, loading, tyre size.  

What really killed that 130, was Mali.

We rebuilt it, properly. New HD chassis included

Reminds me of a couple of things, one was a 110 that came in to Frogs Island when I was doing my work experience from school used by one of the guided tour type setups I believe (it had Namaste down the side IIRC). That had been running with god knows how much on the roof rack - Tent, must have been 8-10 jerry cans + storage boxes and on stripping the inside out was found to have broken all but a couple of the roof bolts and stress fractured a lot of the roof and body side connections. 

The other was a white 130 quad tech at billing a few years ago. Known to a friend that was something like 3.8/3.9T without driver and passengers  think they were also leading tours. Had every possible extra you could imagine, including two enormous roof tents. 

[FridgeFreezer]

1 hour ago, Nonimouse said:

I love looking at these builds, having been involved in building stuff for folk, both when working for OEC and then for myself; but it does scare me just how much money, time and weight people put into a build and then when something goes wrong they don't understand why.

That's sort of how I feel about a lot of it - people can build whatever stuff they like but it seems so many get drawn in to throwing vat amounts of time, money & weight at a vehicle that is ultimately unsuitable / vastly over-specced for what they actually use it for. Jezmond was very good at repeatedly asking people the question - what do you actually need it to do? - followed by all the much easier options than whatever mad-max zombie-apocalypse creation people had convinced themselves they needed to build just to take the wife & kids wild camping within 50km of the nearest Spar shop.

Only reason we're running the ambulance as a camper is for the fun factor - if we had any sense we'd be in a LWB sprinter with more room and about 1/3rd the fuel bill

Another case in point that rolled in next to us on the NC500:

 

Absolutely beautifully built to very high spec and with every (colour-coded) accessory imaginable - he was 3.8t all-up with a stock 300TDi to try and drag it around, had been in low-box on some of the hills and nearly fell over when I said we can cruise at 80mph quite happily. He thought we meant Kph at first

I think his sink/cooker unit cost more than our entire conversion.

They were supposed to be taking it to Africa or somesuch but covid nixed that plan, I'm not sure what the locals drive out there but I bet it's not this sort of thing. I always think you may as well paint "RICH TOURISTS - PLEASE ROB US" down the side of something like that if you roll into a poor rural village or the wrong end of town.

[Anderzander]

There is also the bit where people can just follow their enthusiasm?  even if they are not making wise - or even good! - decisions.

I suppose giving people the freedom to make choices we don’t agree with only changes if you think they are making choices that put them or others in danger? 

[FridgeFreezer]

8 minutes ago, Anderzander said:

There is also the bit where people can just follow their enthusiasm?  even if they are not making wise - or even good! - decisions.

I suppose giving people the freedom to make choices we don’t agree with only changes if you think they are making choices that put them or others in danger? 

I did say people can build whatever they like - it's more that I get the feeling a lot of folks get somewhat swept along / talked into believing that they need a 2 grand roof tent & all sorts of expensive "expedition" stuff just to do the sorts of trips other people do on a motorbike or in an old van with a mattress in the back.

There's also (as with any hobby), the tendency towards gear fetishists (he who bolts the most stuff to his truck wins) and maximalism (carrying huge amounts of stuff just-in-case) when the goal should be to do as much as you can with as little as possible. People build things as if it's the 1950's and they're setting off unsupported across the Darien gap when in reality these days you're rarely far from phone signal and the ability to have some vital part DHL'd half way across the globe and bourne by speeding moped to the nearest hotel or hostelry.

[Stellaghost]

2 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

 people can build whatever stuff they like but it seems so many get drawn in to throwing vat amounts of time, money & weight at a vehicle that is ultimately unsuitable / vastly over-specced for what they actually use it for. 

Sure am pleased this statement did not crop up on my Mog axle thread.............lol

regards Stephen