Nice camper, but .......

[landroversforever]

1 hour ago, FridgeFreezer said:

An odd conclusion, I doubt any manufacturer WANTS to create extra warranty work / failures, surely more likely the Puma gearbox design team thought it was good enough without extra lubrication (maybe the old hands had all left by then?), and it's not as if they don't do millions of miles of testing on stuff like this. Marginal perhaps, but a lot of reasonably smart folks must've thought it was good enough to sign it off.

From my experience of the majority of graduate engineers I've worked with, it's the sort of thing that those with zero hands on training wouldn't even think of . The 'oh its just always connected and turning together' train of thought. 

[Happyoldgit]

2 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

An odd conclusion, I doubt any manufacturer WANTS to create extra warranty work / failures, surely more likely the Puma gearbox design team thought it was good enough without extra lubrication (maybe the old hands had all left by then?), and it's not as if they don't do millions of miles of testing on stuff like this. Marginal perhaps, but a lot of reasonably smart folks must've thought it was good enough to sign it off.

 

Essentially there is nothing wrong with the gearbox to transfer box adapter housing and shaft within. The issue was more one of lack of or inadequate lubricant being applied to the splines of the middle joint of some of the shafts on assembly.

[FridgeFreezer]

2 hours ago, landroversforever said:

From my experience of the majority of graduate engineers I've worked with, it's the sort of thing that those with zero hands on training wouldn't even think of . The 'oh its just always connected and turning together' train of thought. 

I suspect you're right - bet it looks really good in the CAD model though

[Anderzander]

I also think they are unlikely to have retained that knowledge - if you think of how much their product emphasis has changed, how many changes of ownership they had during Defender production, what their staff turn over has probably been, and how big a voice engineering has vs. Design in modern day JLR …  I can easily imagine them not having retained enough ‘corporate memory’ to not repeat the same mistakes.

[Snagger]

6 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

An odd conclusion, I doubt any manufacturer WANTS to create extra warranty work / failures, surely more likely the Puma gearbox design team thought it was good enough without extra lubrication (maybe the old hands had all left by then?), and it's not as if they don't do millions of miles of testing on stuff like this. Marginal perhaps, but a lot of reasonably smart folks must've thought it was good enough to sign it off.

But given previous experience, that was never going to be the case, was it?  Dry splines always wear rapidly, and on a relatively high torque diesel, the outcome was inevitable. I find it hard to believe that LR engineers are that incompetent, and so the other explanation is that someone in commercial decided on it.  We see it with electronic devices and electronic modules in cars, so why it a simple mechanical component.  Inbuilt obsolescence is commonplace in the big brands these days, and LR has become a brand more than a manufacturer, like Tesla, Apple and others which have been demonstrated to design in failures or even to tamper with products after sale.

[Snagger]

2 hours ago, Anderzander said:

I also think they are unlikely to have retained that knowledge - if you think of how much their product emphasis has changed, how many changes of ownership they had during Defender production, what their staff turn over has probably been, and how big a voice engineering has vs. Design in modern day JLR …  I can easily imagine them not having retained enough ‘corporate memory’ to not repeat the same mistakes.

In that case, that would make their transmission engineers utterly incompetent, and I doubt that is the case.  Corporate greed over an outgoing model that has a demonstrably overindulgent and extraordinarily patient fan base seems highly likely to me.

[FridgeFreezer]

16 minutes ago, Snagger said:

Corporate greed

I don't see how increasing your warranty claims & reducing customer satisfaction is somehow devious corporate greed?

Feels more like hitting the limits of available R&D budget, there's only so much time & money to develop vehicles and JLR have always operated on a (relatively) very skinny budget, especially given the low volumes / high manufacturing cost of the Defender at the time. The TDCi was a relatively quick Ford parts-bin re-hash of the Defender after all.

[Ed Poore]

I concur with John. I suspect it was a case of one team not talking to another and a subsequent "Oh poop" moment

[Happyoldgit]

Personally I would think it more likely to be whoever assembled the shafts, in whatever in house or outside manufacturing plant, not doing their job properly or that the amount of lubricant specified was not sufficient. The fact that failures were random leads me to suspect the former but who knows.

[Badger110]

13 minutes ago, Happyoldgit said:

Personally I would think it more likely to be whoever assembled the shafts, in whatever in house or outside manufacturing plant, not doing their job properly or that the amount of lubricant specified was not sufficient. The fact that failures were random leads me to suspect the former but who knows.

It’s an interesting point you raise there as the gearbox is a Ford item and the Transfer an original LR item. 
 

Perhaps when assembling both items and coming from different areas of the factory no one thought to lubricate the shaft? 
 

A simple mistake or oversight…

[Stellaghost]

24 minutes ago, Badger110 said:

 lubricate the shaft? 

Nope, don't do it......

Definately not going there.......

regards Stephen

[Anderzander]

Let’s get back to campers quick 

[Escape]

End of this month I'll be joining 2 mates on a little camping and greenlaning trip. I've decided I don't need a camper, I'll just throw my bed chair in the back of the P38, with some stuff underneath and maybe an extra cooler with a dedicated feed. I wouldn't mind a bigger/ more aggressive set of tyres but I'm sure I'll be fine.
Which does beg the question why I'm putting all that money and effort in the build of my other P38... But it will be glorious if that ever gets finished. 🙂
So I guess I've just made a case for both the bare essentials approach ('cause I really want to go camping NOW) and an all-out no-expenses-spared project for the fun of it and to see if I/we can do it.

[elbekko]

37 minutes ago, Escape said:

I wouldn't mind a bigger/ more aggressive set of tyres

If only there was a set on P38 wheels sitting upstairs, just a little bit of trimming recommended

[Mo Murphy]

What a tasteless monstrosity that thing is ! The builder was plainly on the wacky baccy (and probably mushrooms too) when he thought that would look good on the back of a Land Rover ! 🥴

Perhaps he could develop an Evoque version and post pictures of it in the Evoque forum where no one will ever see them !

Mo

[Stellaghost]

6 hours ago, Mo Murphy said:

 🥴

Perhaps he could develop an Evoque version and post pictures of it in the Evoque forum where no one will ever see them !

Ahhhhh refreshingly consistant............

Great to see your sabbatical hasn't changed you...

Regards Stephen

[Mo Murphy]

😁

[ThreePointFive]

8 hours ago, Escape said:

Which does beg the question why I'm putting all that money and effort in the build of my other P38...

Because it beats watching TV and you have something to show for it at the end.

What was that about displacement activities...

[smallfry]

12 hours ago, Escape said:

End of this month I'll be joining 2 mates on a little camping and greenlaning trip. I've decided I don't need a camper, I'll just throw my bed chair in the back of the P38, with some stuff underneath and maybe an extra cooler with a dedicated feed. I wouldn't mind a bigger/ more aggressive set of tyres but I'm sure I'll be fine.
Which does beg the question why I'm putting all that money and effort in the build of my other P38... But it will be glorious if that ever gets finished. 🙂
So I guess I've just made a case for both the bare essentials approach ('cause I really want to go camping NOW) and an all-out no-expenses-spared project for the fun of it and to see if I/we can do it.

This is the thing, for me at least. What fun is camping without some "challenges" to surmount ? I just dont get this luxurious home from home thing. I like the back to basics approach, otherwise it feels far too well organised, and one might as well go on a SAGA cruise instead. 

Building the vehicle though, is the hobby. Just to see if you can, and if it works for you, then great ! 

[Escape]

11 hours ago, smallfry said:

This is the thing, for me at least. What fun is camping without some "challenges" to surmount ? I just dont get this luxurious home from home thing. I like the back to basics approach, otherwise it feels far too well organised, and one might as well go on a SAGA cruise instead. 

Building the vehicle though, is the hobby. Just to see if you can, and if it works for you, then great ! 

Just to be clear, I'm not building a camper, I don't even care much about creature comforts in my home (which is no more than a converted office space, probably smaller than some campers!), so certainly wouldn't spend money on a luxurious camper. But stuff like lockers, a hydraulic winch and a fancy motor that is something I'm willing to work for. Though that also takes away from the challenges you can encounter with a standard vehicle on a greenlane.

[Mo Murphy]

You could always get a roof tent and be a hardcore overlander Filip 😁

Mo

[reb78]

4 hours ago, Mo Murphy said:

You could always get a roof tent and be a hardcore overlander Filip 😁

Mo

🥱

[Mo Murphy]

Rebs got a roof tent ! 🤣

Mo

[FridgeFreezer]

2 hours ago, Mo Murphy said:

Rebs got a roof tent ! 🤣

Surely it should therefore say "Extreeemee hardcore overlanderer!!!!" under his name then?

Honestly mods, what do we pay you for?

[Mo Murphy]

2 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Surely it should therefore say "Extreeemee hardcore overlanderer!!!!" under his name then?

Honestly mods, what do we pay you for?

Well, it should FF, I concur, but it doesn't ...

Yet 😉

Mo