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Hi 

Hello I am new to this forum. Apologies if I am duplicating a thread. I did a search but could not find an answer.

My 2003 defender has all round LED lights. I live in the countryside and it gets very dark because there no street lighting. The standard headlights are like candles and therefore useless. The LED lights are really good you can be seen and you can see things running into the road. Problem is the MOT inspector said he could not pass it unless I put the old ones back in. He did not explain the actual problem it is just the rules! So I am in a ludicrous situation where I need to swap headlights for inferior ones to get it through a test which is apparently there to make sure the car is safe. Problem is until I put the LED ones back in I can’t see where I am going.

Given the number of after market LED lights available I assume this has been overcome by some.

Anyone know what is going on and if you can put LED lights in a defender without falling foul of the bureaucracy that seems to be contradicting itself. I have found some that say they are ok for MOT but are not CE - which mine are. 

Thanks for you help 

 

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If the led lights are E marked & left hand dip, then he should pass them, the beam pattern is flat topped but should still pass, look online for the mot testers manual & shove it in his face. 

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garage i use has led lights in his new 110 so must be ok, theres some nightmare testers out there. second find rules and have a frank discussion with tester.

second vote with feet - mine failed on lights as i have headlights with internal sidelight type bulbs, one dead on test so fail - hey ho i missed it. get replaced and shade of light doesnt quite match other side as different makes of bulb, fail again...... 

 

will i ever go back there - god no. are the mandatory position lights no - should they have failed i think not on shade of light....

 

garage next door who arent testers but do my work have now changed test stations as too many issues so definetly complain.

 

 

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11 hours ago, western said:

If the led lights are E marked & left hand dip, then he should pass them, the beam pattern is flat topped but should still pass, look online for the mot testers manual & shove it in his face. 

The 'named brands' LED lights (Trucklite, Nolden, JW Speaker, VisionX, possibly even Britpart) are fully road legal - they have the correct E Markings and beam pattern.

A lot of the chinese imports that you get from ebay claim to have the right markings but don't - so they are an MOT fail (although to a certain extent it depends on the tester if the beam pattern is ok).

From defender2:

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic62722.html

Quote

Sorry Stu, but a headlight with just DOT, SAE and E + number in a circle is not approved for road use in Europe no matter what a seller might tell you. 

Legal trail start with, Vehicle Lighting Regulations, move on to Approval marks act, then go to UNECE Regulations. 

An approval mark for LED headlights consist of several parts 

1). Country code which has done the approval, call wrongly an E marked, 

2) Approval or amendment number 

3) Actual approval number 4-6 digits 

4) Light function code this is HCR for LED headlight, A for side light, RL for DRL 

5) if plastic lens PL 

6) Peak beam reference number, typically 12.5/17.5/25 

7) LHT then an arrow 


Now if the light is more then dip and main beam then it can be done under one approval number. 


Light at front only white as steady light except yellow for old style French headlights. If you can change light colour illegal. 

Halo turns amber and flash when you indicate high chance of being illegal! Definitely illegal with original indicator working. 


If you want to know how good your seller of LED headlights is ask them to explain the markings and especially what numbers like 12.5/17.5/25 actually mean and the legal requirements for peak beam reference number. 

If your headlights do not have the correct approval markings on then your vehicle is not road legal. Passing an MOT does not make it road legal. Non road legal vehicle makes serious problems with your insurance policy. 


Brendan

 

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I suspect he is getting confused with hid. You can no longer fit hid without self levelling and even then only if it was a factory option I believe.

Led as above if E marked there fine.

Mike

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The other issue might be coming from the type of unit. You've not said (or I've missed) whether you're using LED bulbs in the original housings which isn't legal. Properly branded and approved complete units are OK. But like HID need self leveling if their light output is over the threshold. 

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It is a question I have been left pondering too. My P38 came with 'Xenon' bulbs whatever that means, it passed the first inspection in my ownership without comment. For the second I was told to remove the 'HID' bulbs, when I delved into it, the Xenon light kit seemed to be LED bulbs and ballast resistors?? I replaced them with ordinary bulbs which work well enough to be fair. So all these Xenon light kits pushed through ebay are illegal then?

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And yes, almost certainly illegal for road use.

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This subject has been done to death, here are a few snipets from the past, the first on being the most important. One of the things to keep in mind is that Land rover did fit LED headlights to at least one version of the Defender. So this means, that if you have this brand of headlight, it is factory spec, and therefore legal. For other versions, it is a bit more grey, but I think that if it gives a proper pattern which you can adjust to the right height, they are E-marked and are bright enough, there is no reason why it should not pass.

Here, from the most informative Land rover forum:

 

Have fun reading this lot!

 

Daan

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6 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

And yes, almost certainly illegal for road use.

To be clear, I was talking about HIDs, which is whole different kettle of fish compared to LED *units* (rather than bulbs in halogen lamps, which *is* illegal.)

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So as to not create a totally new thread....

Now we have rolled into 2020 and the prices of some of them have come down a bit more I am considering LED headlights as part of my build

I am considering the WIPAC ones https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/233282348644?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=&mkcid=2&itemid=233282348644&targetid=4584894773005086&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=373799464&mkgroupid=1300722489753525&rlsatarget=pla-4584894773005086&abcId=2145996&merchantid=87779&msclkid=f15af352f4ee15d7547aada655d96469 or the Trucklight ones https://bearmach.com/front-rhd-headlight-led-halo-7inch-trucklite-ss-27200c-ba-070trh

 

Forget the pricing for now as I think both can be had for £340 a pair. JW Speakers and Noldens are still £750 a set and way above what I would consider paying

 

Does anyone have any real world experience of these?

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I have the same ones as Mike - they are much better than the Wipac Halogens with uprated bulbs they replaced. The one downside is that there isn't much illumination close to the front of the truck - the beam proper starts about 10feet out. I believe this was rectified in the mk2 versions which are now for sale. 

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Excellent thanks. I think I am going to take the plunge. Freezing conditions not such a problem down here in sunny Suffolk

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There was talk of the US/LHD pattern lights with heated lenses being made in UK/RHD pattern soon. That's the way I would go for the condensation/frost/snow on the lens reasons.

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9 minutes ago, =jon= said:

One of the JW Speaker models has filaments in the lenses to stop them freezing up.

https://www.mobilecentre.co.uk/j-w-speaker-evo2-8700-smartheat-dual-burn-led-headlamp-defender-kit-uk-black-heated


Sit down before you look at the price though!

:hysterical: think I will give those a miss! Trucklite or Wipac LED are still the two I am considering

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2 hours ago, =jon= said:

One of the JW Speaker models has filaments in the lenses to stop them freezing up.

https://www.mobilecentre.co.uk/j-w-speaker-evo2-8700-smartheat-dual-burn-led-headlamp-defender-kit-uk-black-heated


Sit down before you look at the price though!

😲 I wouldn't consider LED headlamps without heating, but err... They're going to have to come down in price quite a bit yet to be worth it...

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It's a weird one for me, are LED sealed units, I've been using LEDs in one form or another for years now, and something I've noticed is that they're not invincible, I find it not all that inspiring that companies like truck lite are only offering a 3 year warranty on them, they may last x50 longer than a halogen but that "risk" is on the customer not the manufacturer.

Now I like pissing money into the wind as much as any other land rover owner, you only have to look at my new exhaust 😆 but some niggle has repeatedly stopped me from investing in led headlights.

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5 hours ago, Maverik said:

It's a weird one for me, are LED sealed units, I've been using LEDs in one form or another for years now, and something I've noticed is that they're not invincible, I find it not all that inspiring that companies like truck lite are only offering a 3 year warranty on them, they may last x50 longer than a halogen but that "risk" is on the customer not the manufacturer.

Now I like pissing money into the wind as much as any other land rover owner, you only have to look at my new exhaust 😆 but some niggle has repeatedly stopped me from investing in led headlights.

I'm sort of there... I have spent so much unnecessary money on my 90 I'm a bit like 'in for a penny in for a pound' at the moment! If I don't bite the bullet now I know I won't do it

The challenge truck has some 70 quid ebay specials on it which are fine as lights that don't fill with water but I wouldn't want them on a proper road truck... Anyone who wants to do decent speeds with 35 inch Silverstone on in the dark has a death wish anyway! 

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On 2/19/2019 at 8:10 PM, crofted said:

Hi 

Hello I am new to this forum. Apologies if I am duplicating a thread. I did a search but could not find an answer.

My 2003 defender has all round LED lights. I live in the countryside and it gets very dark because there no street lighting. The standard headlights are like candles and therefore useless. The LED lights are really good you can be seen and you can see things running into the road. Problem is the MOT inspector said he could not pass it unless I put the old ones back in. He did not explain the actual problem it is just the rules! So I am in a ludicrous situation where I need to swap headlights for inferior ones to get it through a test which is apparently there to make sure the car is safe. Problem is until I put the LED ones back in I can’t see where I am going.

Given the number of after market LED lights available I assume this has been overcome by some.

Anyone know what is going on and if you can put LED lights in a defender without falling foul of the bureaucracy that seems to be contradicting itself. I have found some that say they are ok for MOT but are not CE - which mine are. 

Thanks for you help 

 

If you cannot see where you are going with the standard headlights, it might be worth having your eyes checked for any possible problems which might cause this difficulty.

Whilst the standard headlights might not be as bright as the latest laser cannons fitted to a lot of modern cars they were/are perfectly acceptable for night time driving along roads which are not streetlit

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Has the 2003 defender got the carp wiring and large voltage drop seen on earlier defenders? Full current through the switch if memory serves? If so looking up the relay kits for the headlights will increase the light output by reducing the voltage drop.

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Even addind one relay for dip & another for main beam made a very noticeable difference on my 110, I powered the 2 relays direct from alternator output via a 30amp fuse for each relay & upgraded the wiring size from relays to lights.

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Seeing as the original post over a year old and he never came back, I guess he got it sorted ;)

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