crclifford Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Oh dear.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53317740 so may not be British made (or out together should I say). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Well .... I think they don’t build a massive pharma company without being somewhat ruthless and commercially astute. They’ll do the numbers and we will know which one was the most economically advantageous.... because they will choose it. In someways that attitude is in part what gives me confidence that they’ll make the automotive business viable. They’re not just car enthusiasts or dreamers with no business sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crclifford Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Anderzander, I fully agree. Unless the Welsh govt or UK govt make it financially better for them to continue, you’d expect them to go where it makes financial sense to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 There is a 99% chance that this is a way to get the local government to provide more incentives. You do not become the richest man in the land by playing nicely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 The French will be trying to win their business right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/07/07/jim-ratcliffes-ineos-mulls-making-land-rover-rival-france/ Who cares where it's made? I guess that since it will be sold as a commercial vehicle rather than a car, it will escape the EU's per-vehicle punishment for cars emitting more than 100grams/Km of CO2: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/12/29/car-giants-face-billions-fines-eu-emissions-rules-take-effect/ I wonder how it will be treated in the UK: here, "commercial vehicles" have a lower dual-carriageway speed-limit than passenger-cars. There has been argument in the past as to whether a Defender-with-rear-seats is allowed to do 60 or 70MPH on a dual-carriageway. Will the Grenadier have a factory full-rear-seating option, I wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 The French have some rather nasty laws about making people redundant, so Ineos may be hoping to be bribed by Daimler to pick up the slack and get whatever sweeteners are offered by the French local authorities. (All a bit depressing as my wife, working from home, is making arrangements to make lots of people redundant around the country). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 I see in my work too. Sobering 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesBrooks Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 7 hours ago, Tanuki said: I guess that since it will be sold as a commercial vehicle rather than a car, it will escape the EU's per-vehicle punishment for cars emitting more than 100grams/Km of CO2: I mentioned that a few pages ago and also thought the emissions regs would fit into the same puzzle. My original argument was based around the lower limit discouraging people from buying it who would be likely to drive it like a car then whinge bitterly and publically when full live axle peculiarities bite. I'm not sure how many parrallels there are between type approval and IVA but calling your homebuild a commercial and stomaching the reduced speed limits makes external projections testing easier. Only thing that added a little doubt to that was the mention of families in one of the videos. I think they have been painting a more constructed story in those videos though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 5 hours ago, WesBrooks said: I think they have been painting a more constructed story in those videos though. Me too, given that it's been 100% CGI vehicles and marketing puff up till now - the same thing everyone moaned about LR doing in the Defender thread, but I guess when Ineos are telling you what you want to hear it's fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesBrooks Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Yeah, I'd got my thought process twisted by making the mistake of listening to the words released by marking... 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 The difference seems to be that their marketing puff is branding a utility vehicle as a utility vehicle - whereas JLR are trying to present a luxury vehicle as a continuity of product from a utility vehicle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 It could equally be branding a £40k BMW-engined G-Wagen as something novel, just to play the cynic for a sec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 A £40k G Wagen would be novel though wouldn’t it ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 They used to be cheaper than that before Mercedes lost their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klivins Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 13 hours ago, Red90 said: They used to be cheaper than that before Mercedes lost their way. Back in 1979 Mercedes G classe was priced at about 30000 DM in Germany. Quick run thru the inflation calculator - its about 35000 euro in today's money. 10 years later the price were about 60000 DM. About 50000 euro today, adjusted for inflation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 On 7/8/2020 at 12:08 PM, Anderzander said: A £40k G Wagen would be novel though wouldn’t it ? Gimme 😎 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 I saw some news on the UK America's cup challenge yacht on TV and it's sponsored by Ineos Grenadier , previous years sponsors were JLR I believe ? Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 https://images.app.goo.gl/z8nFEAtFgTQU5v6b6 Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 I bet Ineos cannot get the Grenadier ready for the teams to use a crew buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 13 hours ago, Mo Murphy said: https://images.app.goo.gl/z8nFEAtFgTQU5v6b6 Mo Now that's some technology there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 If the Grenadier is made abroad it will undermine all of the vehicle's intent as a spiritual successor to the Land Rover. Given that a major reason why the Defender was ceased was it's high production cost/low profit margin, Ineos's main USP was (to me at least) showing a British utility vehicle could be a commercially viable product and widely exportable. The whole point is two fingers up at LR to show what they could have done. When we bemoan that "Britain don't make nothing no more", it is decisions like this that cause it. They are making a conscious decision to walk away from British manufacturing. I predict this will be an unpopular opinion as it seems Ineos can do no wrong, but we wouldn't/havent forgiven JLR for the same behavior with Slovakian production lines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, ThreePointFive said: If the Grenadier is made abroad it will undermine all of the vehicle's intent as a spiritual successor to the Land Rover. Given that a major reason why the Defender was ceased was it's high production cost/low profit margin, Ineos's main USP was (to me at least) showing a British utility vehicle could be a commercially viable product and widely exportable. The whole point is two fingers up at LR to show what they could have done. When we bemoan that "Britain don't make nothing no more", it is decisions like this that cause it. They are making a conscious decision to walk away from British manufacturing. I predict this will be an unpopular opinion as it seems Ineos can do no wrong, but we wouldn't/havent forgiven JLR for the same behavior with Slovakian production lines. I hear where you are coming from. But ultimately most vehicles are world components these days. BMW's and Mercs are built in the USA and shipped all over the world. Yet to most people they are still "German" cars. Fords are built in Malaysia and people in the UK still think of them as British cars (of course ignoring the fact that they are American). Isn't it Bentley's that have all of their components built in other countries and then shipped to the UK for final assembly. Are they really 'Made in Britain'? From my own stable, I have an American muscle/pony car. But it was actually built in Canada and shipped direct to the EU. It has never set a tyre on US soil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Chicken Drumstick said: I hear where you are coming from. But ultimately most vehicles are world components these days. BMW's and Mercs are built in the USA and shipped all over the world. Yet to most people they are still "German" cars. Fords are built in Malaysia and people in the UK still think of them as British cars (of course ignoring the fact that they are American). Isn't it Bentley's that have all of their components built in other countries and then shipped to the UK for final assembly. Are they really 'Made in Britain'? From my own stable, I have an American muscle/pony car. But it was actually built in Canada and shipped direct to the EU. It has never set a tyre on US soil. That is of course the real point, the number of "made in [not Britain]" Stickers on LR Genuine parts proves that these were multinational products for decades. I have to look up BMW part numbers for connectors on my TD5 harnesses... I suppose it is that final bolting together in the UK that I was grasping onto, and for that to go... Well, I'm just disappointed it won't be thought of as the British engineering success I really wanted it to be. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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