smallfry Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Red90 said: It has no similarities to TB. That isn't what I meant. What I meant was, that in the view of many TB has "gone away" in this country. It hasn't, though not as common as it once was. Its rife in the third world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 The danger with TB is the Multi-drug resistant strains or even the extensively drug resistant strains. I am told by a customer of mine in one of the TB reference labs that they detect the drug resistant strains often in a patient who is from overseas maybe visiting a relative. They then try to get in contact with the person but are unable to as they have left the country and can't be traced - of course taking their drug resistant strain of TB with them and not taking a suitable regime of treatment for the strain of TB identified, probably spreading it to other people. There are now totally drug resistant strains of TB - that is scary stuff in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, smallfry said: That isn't what I meant. What I meant was, that in the view of many TB has "gone away" in this country. It hasn't, though not as common as it once was. Its rife in the third world Try and read what I wrote. The reason TB does not go away is because it stays in people that are infected. That is NOT what Covid does. They are completely and totally unrelated things that have no analogies in any way whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 To be even more clear. TB is a bacteria. When you get it, most people's immune systems do not kill it. Most people show no symptoms and thus have and spread the bacteria for the rest of their lives. In addition, the bacteria can live for very long periods outside of a host. Sars-cov-2 is a virus. Everybody that gets the virus kills it off in two weeks. Past that point, there is no virus in that person. A virus is not alive and can't remain stable for more than a few days outside of a host. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, Red90 said: To be even more clear. TB is a bacteria. When you get it, most people's immune systems do not kill it. Most people show no symptoms and thus have and spread the bacteria for the rest of their lives. In addition, the bacteria can live for very long periods outside of a host. Sars-cov-2 is a virus. Everybody that gets the virus kills it off in two weeks. Past that point, there is no virus in that person. A virus is not alive and can't remain stable for more than a few days outside of a host. Agreed, with the assumption that your immune system is functioning well. If not, you won't kill the virus - it will kill you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, monkie said: Agreed, with the assumption that your immune system is functioning well. If not, you won't kill the virus - it will kill you! With this disease, it does not appear that the virus is killing many people directly. Studies show that it is your immune system attacking healthy cells what is killing people. By the time most people are in serious distress the virus has been killed off and your immune system is continuing to attack healthy cells. I can link papers on this if you wish. In any case, that was NOT what was being discussed. We were discussing whether or not the virus could be eliminated within a local area completely. smallfry was suggesting that it could hang around much like TB. It can't. It must have live carriers and those carriers will not hold it for more than two weeks. Edited March 30, 2020 by Red90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 21 minutes ago, Red90 said: With this disease, it does not appear that the virus is killing many people directly. Studies show that it is your immune system attacking healthy cells that is killing people. By the time most people are in serious distress the virus has been killed off and your immune system is continuing to attack healthy cells. I can link papers on this if you wish. In any case, that was NOT what was being discussed. We were discussing whether or not the virus could be eliminated within a local area completely. smallfry was suggesting that it could hang around much like TB. It can't. It must have live carriers and those carriers will not hold it for more than two weeks. There are many pathologies for this and as you say studies are of course ongoing. However the virus is causing viral pneumonia in a portion of infected people. Those who are immunocompromised get overwhelmed by the infection. I thought the discussion as a whole was coronavirus whether that be the pathology of the disease or the impacts such as people's business or work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, monkie said: There are many pathologies for this and as you say studies are of course ongoing. However the virus is causing viral pneumonia in a portion of infected people. Those who are immunocompromised get overwhelmed by the infection. I thought the discussion as a whole was coronavirus whether that be the pathology of the disease or the impacts such as people's business or work. It can cause viral pneumonia directly, but most people dying are not from that directly. See this article from Harvard. https://www.jhltonline.org/article/S1053-2498(20)31473-X/fulltext The overall discussion is on Covid, but the sub discussion that you quoted me on was about whether or not it can be completely stopped or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 On another note... the post Covid economic effect I've just gotten an email from AirNZ our national airline (i'm a share holder and an airpoints member) the management have been sending out updates since before flight restrictions started and have been in consultation with our Govt from the start Up untill now staff have been off on leave or partial pay from a Govt subsidy... but there jobs were being held there untill things start back up again Quote While we are expecting at least domestic bookings to increase again once the Level 4 Alert has been lifted, the harsh reality is that most countries (including New Zealand) will rightly take a cautious approach to opening their borders again. International tourism flows make up around two thirds of Air New Zealand’s revenue, which means the lack of incoming tourists also has a flow-on effect on our domestic network. In that light, it is clear that the Air New Zealand which emerges from Covid-19 will be a much smaller and largely domestic airline with limited international services to keep supply lines open for the foreseeable future. Quote The reality is that given we are expecting to be at least 30% smaller than we are today we will need to reduce the size of the workforce by up to 3500 roles. So the Govt is expecting our tourism industry to dry up..... this is depending on source but around 8% of GDP and somewhere around 200,000 jobs (directly imployed) I imagine this is going to be similar in other countries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 8 hours ago, mad_pete said: It was my understanding 12 months would be a record by quite some way for a vaccine from nothing to delivered but I don’t think the whole world has worked quite so hard on the same thing ever before so I could see a super fast turn around happening. I think the majority of that 12 months is that that's the minimum viable time to wait for any serious side-effects to show up in the human guinea-pigs (some of whom, incidentally, were given the prototype vaccine at least a week ago). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 I have a sneaky feeling that 'the other side of Corona' is going to be a very different place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Hopefully the only thing that changes is anti Vaxers now see why vaccines are good (maybe throw out a bit less co2 overall as well). its going to be some tough times but once we have antibody tests and vaccines things will start returning to normal and then economy will start picking up again. if we are lucky we will ditch GDP as a measure, have a greater appreciation for life and maybe get a better in country manufacturing base longer term. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Nonimouse said: I have a sneaky feeling that 'the other side of Corona' is going to be a very different place. You're not wrong - I can see a big split between those who worked from home and those who lost a job, business, or an entire industry overnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 I can see working from home losing it's social unacceptability, the reduction of self employed folk, social distancing becoming the norm (even if it is to avoid the yearly out breaks of COVID - 19). Maybe the reduction in overseas holidays... Hey ho, inshallah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 We'll bow, take off our shoes at the door, queue inside the lines at stations. Make amazing devices of high quality. We're all "Turning Japanese!" Konichiwa 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 27 minutes ago, Nonimouse said: I can see working from home losing it's social unacceptability, Not least from employers who could vastly reduce the costly office space they need! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 My guess is that people will be back to their normal as....l & sh.. behaviour before we know it....... That is just me - living in deep darkest rural France.... Working from home for over 26 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 I work at a government lab.... I think the biggest thing for us will be a greater number of people working from home more often. Hopefully, although I really can't see it happening, a reduction in the number of bloody meetings. Most of which are pointless, or you get chastised for making no progress but the previous week has been filled with meetings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 13 minutes ago, landroversforever said: Hopefully, although I really can't see it happening, a reduction in the number of bloody meetings. Most of which are pointless, or you get chastised for making no progress but the previous week has been filled with meetings. It's been interesting being in the house with H who has spent about 75%+ of every day on conference calls and web-thingies, it's a wonder anyone in big companies ever gets anything done! Do wish a lot of companies would let the office folk work from home, it creates so much traffic and takes up so much space & air conditioning etc. for stuff that could be done on a laptop from anywhere... then again, it's been fairly well doable for 20-30 years for the cost of a laptop and a phone line and it's not caught on yet 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Nonimouse said: I can see working from home losing it's social unacceptability Is it socially unacceptable? I've been doing it for 17 years now.... I agree, it makes little sense for 200 people to all congregate somewhere 5 days a week, even if you said two or three days a week you work from home, and stagger it with the other half of the workforce, you'd stop people needlessly travelling by about 40%. ....and of course reduce size of offices/repurpose the building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 23 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: Is it socially unacceptable? I've been doing it for 17 years now.... Amongst men, yes. John Hopkins have produced some very interesting research about it 1 hour ago, landroversforever said: I work at a government lab.... I think the biggest thing for us will be a greater number of people working from home more often. Hopefully, although I really can't see it happening, a reduction in the number of bloody meetings. Most of which are pointless, or you get chastised for making no progress but the previous week has been filled with meetings. I work for a (the) Government Company, having meetings is a way to stop things from getting done efficiently and sustainably and is vital to our role in spending the tax so generously donated by UK Citizens 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 A new world order, a more liberal approach to working with less travel perhaps? Maybe .....until the next carp storm comes along. My concern is that real international pressure is brought to bear on the China to stop those bloody awful wet markets, not just tut tut finger wagging but proper tariffs and sanctions. Umpteen different species of animals held in close proximity, slaughtered then sold for different purposes including dodgy sexual improvers - bloody awful cr@p holes and allegedly the source of the current outbreak. But I can already hear the wails of outrage as people realise the source of much of their cheap consumer goods will be affected as will a plethora of western manufacturers who have moved production out to China in order to take advantage of cheap labour etc. For my new world order I would like to see more locally produced goods and foodstuffs and I personally would be willing to pay for it too. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 52 minutes ago, Nonimouse said: Amongst men, yes. John Hopkins have produced some very interesting research about it Lots of men do not want to be at home with their families.... I saw a lot of guys push back against not being allowed to work at the office. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 In my previous life I worked for years in the development of national networks, hardware and software infrastructure to enable a workplace revolution, end pointless commuting and make us more productive. Unfortunately employers were reluctant to make use of it even after implementing it as they can't get past seeing it as some kind of perk (to work from breakfast to bedtime in your own home) - so now the bulk of the nations core capacity is used in watching Game of Thrones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy50 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Time will tell but I foresee thousands of small businesses going belly up (of course others will come along in their place ) pubs , shops etc , a lot of unemployment for at least 12 months and lots of mortgage repossessions 😖. I think the gap between the haves and have nots will grow too .Hope I’m wrong . I noticed in the news that Gordon Ramsey had laid off 500 staff , I know he’s had to shut his restaurants but he earned £51 million last year , you would think a bit of that could have gone to keeping his staff in a wage until he can reopen , thousands have been let go from their work , some unavoidable, some down to pure greed and selfishness by the business owners . Sad times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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