Ed Poore Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 2 hours ago, L19MUD said: Another major impact as from 1 April is the change in red diesel legislation. Only Agriculture/Horticulture is exempt so every digger/dumper etc has to run on white and so does every fridge unit on chiller lorries. Will be a big knock on impact It's slightly more complicated than that as we've found. One guy I help out occassionally has been having to look into this a lot because a lot of his work is done for local farms. From what he's been able to find out - if the digger is being used for constructing a new building on the farm then he has to run on white as it's classes as construction. If he's putting in cattle tracks, clearing ditches, sorting out slurry pits etc., then it's classes as agriculture and can run on red. They're expected to completely flush the system and change the filters everytime they switch as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 12 minutes ago, Ed Poore said: It's slightly more complicated than that as we've found. One guy I help out occassionally has been having to look into this a lot because a lot of his work is done for local farms. From what he's been able to find out - if the digger is being used for constructing a new building on the farm then he has to run on white as it's classes as construction. If he's putting in cattle tracks, clearing ditches, sorting out slurry pits etc., then it's classes as agriculture and can run on red. They're expected to completely flush the system and change the filters everytime they switch as well. From the bit of reading on it I've done they seem to have made a total mess of it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 11 minutes ago, landroversforever said: From the bit of reading on it I've done they seem to have made a total mess of it! Well that is a big surprise ... Will be hard to enforce too Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Agreed it is more complicated than my post...the government guidance is pages long! For me it means we can use red to cut a meadow as long as there are no animals kept on the field that are not livestock (e.g horses) then white is needed. My private yard forklift needs to run on red but as it uses about a tank a year at most it will be legal on red for ages! How can they police any of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnips Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 13 minutes ago, L19MUD said: How can they police any of this? Presumably they won't. I suspect they will leave the policing of it down to whomever supplies the red diesel; i.e. your local fuel company who used to fill the tank up at the builders yard will say 'no, you are not a farmer' but will continue to fill diesel tanks on farms up with red. I mean, what's stopping anyone running on red diesel on the road at the moment? How frequently have you been pulled over in the past and had your tank dipped? It seems like more dream world legislation which is going to prove next to impossible to enforce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 57 minutes ago, L19MUD said: How can they police any of this? The word on the street is two fold. A lot of the fuel companies are not going to deliver red to anything other than a forestry or agriculture company so you'll have difficulty in obtaining it first off. The second is that it's not going to take long for the officials to put the bejeebus up people - a quick stop off at various construction sites and dip the machines there. Initially they're unlikely to be interested in small digger operators in the back end of the country but pop to that building site that has 50+ houses going up on it. Once word spreads that there's an inspector in the area it'll influence more people to switch I expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffR Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/8/2022 at 12:15 PM, Bowie69 said: 117ppl today, showing some signs of slowing. Brent crude price nearly at 2008 high: Crude Oil Price Today | BRENT OIL PRICE CHART | OIL PRICE PER BARREL | Markets Insider (businessinsider.com) Just had 3 quotes for heating oil in Northumberland today (almost run out), lowest was £1.38 pl highest was £1.72 all plus VAT.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 14 minutes ago, Ed Poore said: The word on the street is two fold. A lot of the fuel companies are not going to deliver red to anything other than a forestry or agriculture company so you'll have difficulty in obtaining it first off. The second is that it's not going to take long for the officials to put the bejeebus up people - a quick stop off at various construction sites and dip the machines there. Initially they're unlikely to be interested in small digger operators in the back end of the country but pop to that building site that has 50+ houses going up on it. Once word spreads that there's an inspector in the area it'll influence more people to switch I expect. Here is exactly the issue - I have always purchased in small quantities from local construction companies as we probably only use 200l-300l a year. Whilst I have a use that is legal for red it will now be hard to get hold of. Incidentally was going to buy a load but the prices have stopped that idea! Agreed on construction sites and personally I think those will be the targets as it will be easy to just stop by and dip tanks. What will also become a bigger issue is theft from sites as now there is going to be 1000's of litres of white on site for machines that can be tipped into your car.... Absolute nightmare! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Ok, given the importance of the current international situation and the effect it is likely to have on all of us, I've split these posts off from the "might be of interest" thread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 hour ago, steve b said: Will be hard to enforce too No, if you have red in the tank on the road, and get stopped, you will be done. There is not a lot of scope for a realistic defence. HMRC enforcement are happy to take anonymous tipoffs and act on them. Like so many laws, the people tasked with the enforcement are being starved of resources, so unless you get grassed up or are so dumb that you attract attention to yourself, wrongdoing will go unprosecuted. (All the politician's grandstanding about "tougher sentencing" and "new laws" is irrelevant if there are no resources to investigate and it takes 4+ years to get to Court). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 hour ago, JeffR said: Just had 3 quotes for heating oil in Northumberland today (almost run out), lowest was £1.38 pl highest was £1.72 all plus VAT.... Cripes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 I paid £0.34/litre when I filled the tank last May, it will need filing again in the next few months but there’s no way I will be paying that much for it. Not sure what my options are honestly other than just going without until the summer when hopefully it will come down a bit. Lots of noise and complaints about electricity/gas prices but those are at least regulated and capped - no such protections for those of us reliant on oil for heating. Hence the profiteering seen above. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 24 minutes ago, Retroanaconda said: I paid £0.34/litre when I filled the tank last May, it will need filing again in the next few months but there’s no way I will be paying that much for it. Not sure what my options are honestly other than just going without until the summer when hopefully it will come down a bit. Lots of noise and complaints about electricity/gas prices but those are at least regulated and capped - no such protections for those of us reliant on oil for heating. Hence the profiteering seen above. Aye, another reason why I won't entertain oil here but realise it is sometimes the only option for some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 40 minutes ago, Retroanaconda said: Lots of noise and complaints about electricity/gas prices but those are at least regulated and capped - no such protections for those of us reliant on oil for heating. Hence the profiteering seen above. Regulated they might be but I've just been notified by Scottish gas my bill for combined gas and electric is going up by 54%, and I'm expecting that to go up further, deep joy and happiness Regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 hour ago, jeremy996 said: No, if you have red in the tank on the road, and get stopped, you will be done. There is not a lot of scope for a realistic defence. Red on the road is not a grey area for anything except for tractors. It is illegal from 1 April (once tanks are run out....) What is going to be hard to enforce is the use of red outside of agriculture. Easy enough to turn up to a construction site and check but how do you effectively police people using forklifts in yards, lighting towers for events, generators (assuming not used for heating as that is another grey area) The use of red diesel is much more widespread than you would think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkrentfitter Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 hour ago, L19MUD said: Red on the road is not a grey area for anything except for tractors. It is illegal from 1 April (once tanks are run out....) What is going to be hard to enforce is the use of red outside of agriculture. Easy enough to turn up to a construction site and check but how do you effectively police people using forklifts in yards, lighting towers for events, generators (assuming not used for heating as that is another grey area) The use of red diesel is much more widespread than you would think i work as a heavy plant fitter for a big hire company, we send machines out full, we have had our last delivery of read, the tank in our yard will be filled with white, no flushing out. no plans to change all fuel filters unless blocked or on planned service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Fuel card company has emailed me today saying expect a 20ppl increase from Sunday night. Im not looking forward to the coming months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wytze Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Here in the Netherlands is diesel over the 2 euro mark per liter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 3 hours ago, L19MUD said: Red on the road is not a grey area for anything except for tractors. It is illegal from 1 April (once tanks are run out....) What is going to be hard to enforce is the use of red outside of agriculture. Easy enough to turn up to a construction site and check but how do you effectively police people using forklifts in yards, lighting towers for events, generators (assuming not used for heating as that is another grey area) The use of red diesel is much more widespread than you would think I wonder if this will affect my Unimog, being that its registered as Agricultural ? Although our address is ****** Farm, it is not a working farm any more. Also the mini digger that I run on red. I usually only buy 20 litres at a time for it, so its not that much of a problem, but the principal that it is not used on the road peeves me off. AND, just today we received a letter from British Gas informing of an increase in standing charges. From 30.78 pence per day, to 32.03 pence for gas, which is not too bad, and from 28.60 pence per day to a whopping 47.28 pence per day for electricity. I dont know how they can justify that increase. Obviously the energy is more expensive, but why the standing charge ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 35 minutes ago, Wytze said: Here in the Netherlands is diesel over the 2 euro mark per liter... What has been the price up to recently though Wytze ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 17 minutes ago, smallfry said: I wonder if this will affect my Unimog, being that its registered as Agricultural ? Although our address is ****** Farm, it is not a working farm any more. Also the mini digger that I run on red. I usually only buy 20 litres at a time for it, so its not that much of a problem, but the principal that it is not used on the road peeves me off. AND, just today we received a letter from British Gas informing of an increase in standing charges. From 30.78 pence per day, to 32.03 pence for gas, which is not too bad, and from 28.60 pence per day to a whopping 47.28 pence per day for electricity. I dont know how they can justify that increase. Obviously the energy is more expensive, but why the standing charge ? Very likely to affect the Unimog...but you could be ok. Best to read the regs The standing charge is being used to repay all the money spent by the government propping up the electricity suppliers that went bust due to the price cap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 20 minutes ago, smallfry said: AND, just today we received a letter from British Gas informing of an increase in standing charges. From 30.78 pence per day, to 32.03 pence for gas, which is not too bad, and from 28.60 pence per day to a whopping 47.28 pence per day for electricity. I dont know how they can justify that increase. Obviously the energy is more expensive, but why the standing charge ? Is the standing charge covered by the price cap regulation? If not, guess they're getting round that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wytze Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 49 minutes ago, smallfry said: What has been the price up to recently though Wytze ? In the last week , it must have gone up 30 cent. A month ago it was under 1.60 a liter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post FridgeFreezer Posted March 9, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 9, 2022 Speaking as a man with three V8's and a supercharged daily driver I would still rather endure fuel being £3/litre than fund the crimes against humanity being committed right now. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said: Speaking as a man with three V8's and a supercharged daily driver I would still rather endure fuel being £3/litre than fund the crimes against humanity being committed right now. Completely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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